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After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

latimes.com

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#721

Post by the_pwner224 »

GhostVII wrote: post #540

“Thank you for the question. Respectfully, we’re not going to be reconsidering this,” he said on the videoconference call. “Picking and choosing customers is not the approach that we take to these types of questions when it comes to influencing government policy.” Sounds reasonable. Imo GitHub should be a neutral platform rather than trying to deny service to those they don't agree with. I'm sure electricity and inte…

I agree that making decisions like this puts the company in a bad position and is risky for them. But it's not like GitHub can suddenly pull the plug on ICE and instantly delete all their code; no data will be lost. There are plenty of alternatives to GitHub so ICE doesn't have to worry about their code being taken down, beyond the small cost of migrating to another service. You can't say the same about the traditional utilities which are normally granted a monopoly.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#722

Post by philwelch »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #585
philwelch wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you think religious discrimination is acceptable?

Religion is a protected class, so the question is moot under US law. In any case, I confess I'm always a little suspicious of this method of argument. Bob says, "I will ban neo-Nazis from my forum," and people chime in with, "Well, what about banning Catholics? Vegetarians? People who admit to liking Nickelback?". Is the principle really that if we find one single case where Bob would admit "I don't think banning tha…

I was directly addressing the notion that "It makes sense to not let people discriminate on things that are immutable (like skin color), but it's crazy to not let discrimination happen on things that are a choice." Religion is not an immutable characteristic. It's not a slippery slope argument, but rather a direct counterexample of the principle given.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#723

Post by dnautics »

sukilot wrote: post #673
dnautics wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, do you want specific details? In the mid 80s, My parents took me to a diner, specifically BOB AND EDITH's on columbia pike, in Arlington VA. During the 80s, Asian Americans were very rare in the Washington DC area, and moreover, there was a trade war going on between the US and Japan. It was fashionable at the time for short fiction to feature dystopian US futures where the active currency was the Yen. We arriv…

Imagine if in addition to all you also couldn't even live in the place you do, because until recently it was legal to write on a deed of property that said an Asian-American couldn't own that property or live there. The fact that racism exists doesn't mean that civil rights protections are useless to you.

Nobody is arguing that all civil rights protections are useless.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#724

Post by roenxi »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #426
roenxi wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no way a retail business would be established to service the needs of 2% of the population Slow down there, you're going to need more evidence than that to claim that an underserved segment of the population isn't an attractive commercial target. I agree that wheelchair users might be comparatively expensive customers, but if that 2% stat is correct they would be profitable to someone. A business with 2% o…

Based loosely on 1.2 million wheelchair users in the UK for a population of 50 million it's in the right ballpark. Honestly, I think the claim that the free market would solve this is so outlandish that the burden of proof is on those who believe it. Maybe, just maybe, in a dense population centre like London their needs would be met by a few specialist 'accessable' stores. But what about some rural town of a few tho…

In the global pandemic recently, I spent a week not leaving my apartment even once. I had no trouble getting goods and services because everything was delivered to my door.

It isn't that outlandish that the market will sort it all out. I doubt anyone is going to be unhappy if business get a bit of a prod to remind them that wheelchairs exist, but the idea a free market would ignore 2% of their potential customers is just not true. Greedy capitalists have incentives to be thorough; 2% of the market changing hands is enough to get the attention of any CEO.

Most businesses would notice 2% of their customers disappearing, let alone 2% of the broader market.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#725

Post by webmaven »

rdgthree wrote: post #608
vertex-four wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, packing your things and running is basically impossible for most people anywhere close to that situation because borders are enforced and countries will find any excuse possible to avoid granting refugee status. The "you could've slept in a forest, never interacted with anyone, and foraged for plants for survival" kind of excuse that LGBT folks fleeing from countries where they're likely to get murdere…

I think your parent comment is neither here nor there on actually leaving, but rather just using hyperbole to demonstrate that this isn't a problem easily fixed with laws. A food establishment forced to serve you might serve you food that's gone bad, a mechanic might not fully tighten the nuts on your brake pads, or any other variety of horrible things that people could do to harm you while leaving room for plausible…

> At least if they can legally deny service to you, you know that the ones serving you aren't a risk to your wellbeing.

Assuming that refusal-of-service is a sort of relief valve is wildly optimistic.

Overt but relatively passive forms of racism effectively give pervasive comfort and encouragement to those who would engage in more active acts. Indirectly, this is also why "dog whistle" speech is so dangerous.

Per your example, in an environment where simply refusing service to you was common and widespread, you might find that someone who does agree to serve you is doing so just for the opportunity to spit in your food (at best).

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#726

Post by dnissley »

paulcole wrote: post #651
dnissley wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you got that impression by reading between the lines since he certainly did not say so literally. Since the memo is pretty short, could you go back over it and offer up a justification for that assertion? Is it possible that you rushed to judgement and heard what you wanted to hear?

> I'm guessing you got that impression by reading between the lines since he certainly did not say so literally. It’s called a dog whistle. Damore knew exactly what he was saying, who it would appeal to, and how to attempt to cover himself when the whole thing blew up in his face.

Who was he dog whistling to? The secret google cabal of sexist software engineers? This strong claim borders on conspiracy. It flies in the face of the fact that the memo was not originally posted for the whole company to see, but in response to a request for feedback on bias training.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#727

Post by danans »

dnautics wrote: post #712
danans wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've listed an impressive set of adversities associated with being Asian American, some of which I can also relate to as an Asian American, but then the motivation behind your posts becomes clear with: > Look, the primary issue of racism that Asian Americans have to deal with is not the same as the racism that African Americans have to deal with and then making the following wholly unsubstantiated statement: > whic…

I'm saying we have to work twice as hard as white people, not African Americans. You're missing my point. I'm saying that I don't trust government to make "black lives matter". There might be a chance that government can self intervene and stem the bloody police abuse against African Americans (I'm also not terribly optimistic about this since cops are abusive to plenty of non African American citizens, too, e.g. Kel…

> I'm saying we have to work twice as hard as white people, not African Americans.

The point still stands. How do you know you have to work twice as hard as white people? Which white people? Wealthy who got admitted to elite Private universities on legacy? How about working class white people with non college educated parents?

This question does not deny it all that there is workplace discrimination against Asian Americans, and that depending on educational institution, admission may have a higher bar, but your use of blanket hyperbole doesn't help advance a critical discussion of whether or why that should be the case.

> Look what I'm saying is scary right? I'm saying there is no easy "just make racism illegal" solution to racism.

That's a straw man. Nobody is suggesting "making racism illegal", because it is impossible for legislation to achieve. Racism itself is a cultural issue.

What people are suggesting is removing legal protections that allow law enforcement to disproportionately violate the human rights of African Americans. That is very possible. That is exactly how you get started on tackling the problem of racial injustice in policing.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#728

Post by manigandham »

rattray wrote: post #14

What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. I'm no fan of ICE – a very large percentage of my friends in the US are immigrants, and I generally want my country to be a welcoming one. ICE has certainly committed unethical and probably illegal acts (probably true of most federal agencies). But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a pri…

The United States is very welcoming to immigrants. Probably the best in the world at it.

For some reason, people fail to distinguish between legal and illegal immigration.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#729

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

pmiller2 wrote: post #684
toasterlovin wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Illegal immigrants are not at all entirely of a single minority group. And even though they are mostly of a single minority group, that fact is incidental to the fact that they are being put in detention facilities, it is not causal .

What the GP appears to be saying is that undocumented (not "illegal" -- people are not illegal) immigrants as a whole are a minority group. This is obviously true if you just look at the world outside.

I was using the term "illegal" as an adjective, not a noun, to describe their immigration status, a simple way to say that they are here illegally.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#730

Post by manigandham »

Nobody commenting here seems to have any experience with ICE or their procedures or the criminal justice system, or the staggering difference between legal and illegal immigration.

Most of this seems to be driven by headlines on social media rather than any true understanding of the issues.

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