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After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

latimes.com

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#501

Post by toomuchtodo »

moolcool wrote: post #485
toomuchtodo wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I focus on the political side the of the equation. You do you, these actions are a waste of time in my opinion. Not providing version control isn’t going to stop kids from being locked in cages away from anyone they know. Maybe do things that actively fix that.

> Seek responsibility, not power. > Be kind, be bold, never yield > I’d provide services to ICE

Apologies if you believe there’s a conflict in my belief system. I don’t. We’re just arguing over the “how”. If you’re shooting for impact, make sure it’s exceptional.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#502

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

moolcool wrote: post #480
koheripbal wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So "You're either with us or against us"? Is that the message?

There's obviously grey area, but a lot of comments in this thread come really close to the definition of complacency

I think many of the commenters would openly embrace the label of complacency. That's part of living in a country with a diversity of views; sometimes, when you see people doing something terrible, you have to accept that they don't see it that way rather than going on a warpath to exclude them from polite society.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#503

Post by mtgp1000 »

downerending wrote: post #476
mtgp1000 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All corporations are political This is a meaningless statement that people use to justify railroading their personal politics into everything. By making my services available to everyone equally I am emphatically not making a political statement. This same sentiment is effectively turning an increasing proportion of consumers away from entertainment media.

Over most of the last few decades, most corporations' politics were limited to things like United Way drives, etc. Right or wrong, the situation today is very novel, and we may discover why companies were loath to get involved in this sort of thing in the past. Personally, I'm finding it a significant distraction in my organization. It does leave me wondering if I shouldn't leave for a more neutral one.

You're right, and it goes much deeper. These corporations effectively own enough of our data to trivially deanonymize and target people. An organization of people who believe they are morally justified in they cause are liable to abuse such information, regardless of which side they belong to.

That's the most terrifying part to me as a dev. We don't even need neural networks to search petabytes of social media content for keywords. If we allow corporations to become politicized then we open ourselves up to unprecedented abuses.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#504

Post by staticassertion »

poxrud wrote: post #144
staticassertion wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft already banned the police from using Rekognition. I think if the bar is "don't kill minorities" people are mostly going to be OK with you cutting the contract.

Rekognition is Amazon, not Microsoft.

Whatever Microsoft's thing was then. Or maybe it was only Amazon. The point stands.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#505

Post by takeda »

rattray wrote: post #348
49531 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a better way to look at it is that workers should be able to protest working on a machine they find morally wrong. The world might be a better place if people directing resources were required to stop and think "Are the workers going to willingly do this?" before making decisions.

Yes, I'm glad that GitHub workers are allowed to protest this. It is heartening. That doesn't change the fact that I'm personally disappointed that they're executing that privilege on this particular issue.

"I'm happy that people are allowed to protest, but I don't think they should protest for causes that I don't agree with"

"I think ICE needs reforms, but I don't believe a pressure should be put on them to impose changes"

Makes me wonder if you truly support people protesting or even agree that ICE is doing anything wrong.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#506

Post by vertex-four »

0-O-0 wrote: post #450
code_sloth wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a your version of a free society, what happens when everyone refuses you EVERY single service because random-reason ? They sure as heck aren't murdering, stealing, nor threatening you. They're just refusing to sell you anything because of random-reason , forever. Those services include sales of any food, water, shelter. Taking it further, what if a majority of businesses gradually decide to be racist and refuse al…

> what happens when everyone refuses you EVERY single service If I'll ever find my self in a situation like this - I'll pack my things and run. I'm not going to be happy in a place like this even if government will force those people to tolerate me. > if a majority of businesses gradually decide to be racist and refuse all services just because they can That means anyone entrepreneurial enough will have access to an…

Unfortunately, packing your things and running is basically impossible for most people anywhere close to that situation because borders are enforced and countries will find any excuse possible to avoid granting refugee status. The "you could've slept in a forest, never interacted with anyone, and foraged for plants for survival" kind of excuse that LGBT folks fleeing from countries where they're likely to get murdered get.

An underserved niche market of people who have significantly less money because they can't find work - and your company won't hire them because your other customers who actually have money will boycott you - isn't worth much.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#507

Post by fit2rule »

rattray wrote: post #14

What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. I'm no fan of ICE – a very large percentage of my friends in the US are immigrants, and I generally want my country to be a welcoming one. ICE has certainly committed unethical and probably illegal acts (probably true of most federal agencies). But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a pri…

>_federal agency_ ... political reasons

Federal agencies only exist due to political expediencies. If the public no longer wish for the policies to be enforced, why keep the agency?

Such is democracy.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#508

Post by jlokier »

o10449366 wrote: post #456
dnissley wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have a problem with their employer, and are being heard in the court of public opinion. Why is that "a bummer"? The court of public opinion doesn't have a good track record, for one. It's decisions are often based on fashion more than any kind of ethical principles. A classic exploration of this phenomenon is contained in the novel The Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe.

I haven't read that book. Can you provide some examples supporting the claim that the "court of public opinion" doesn't have a good track record?

> Can you provide some examples supporting the claim that the "court of public opinion" doesn't have a good track record?

Does the regular outcome of popular votes in favour of shafting minorities, restricting human rights etc. rather than general fairness and dignity for all persons regardless of background count?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#509

Post by ceilingcorner »

This seems to be a consequence of the de-professionalization of corporate Tech. “Bring your whole self to work” and all that.

While it seems good natured in this specific case, it can very quickly turn into a small percentage of squeaky politically-minded wheels turning a non-political company into an monoculture activist one.

Personally, I wish we just went back to a professional/private distinction. Keep your politics out of the workplace. Otherwise, I don’t see this ending well.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#510

Post by takeda »

archagon wrote: post #382
mc32 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if developers find it morally wrong to automate away jobs? Do they get a say? Is it within their moral rights for backhoe operators demand manual ditch digging too because that will benefit their friends who lost jobs to powered equipment?

To some extent, yes. The economy exists for the benefit of humanity and not the other way around. The question is: does the automation help us build things that were impossible before, or does it exist for the sole purpose of cutting jobs and funneling more money to the executives?

IMO what actually needs to be done is tax on automation that would directly fund universal income. That would actually help humanity.
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