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Why are there so few black people in STEM?

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Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#191

Post by selimthegrim »

harpratap wrote: post #163
chii wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So these are true for the current generation of immigrants. What about the generation of asians [0] that were from the beginning of the 19th century? They broke out of poverty, despite all the same disadvantages. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_Americans#:... .

I don't believe the Indians and Chinese who immigrated back in 1900s ever got rid of poverty. It's only the last few decades of educated immigrants that changed the narrative that Asians are the model minority, it's been a part of US propaganda for decades now - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/29/the-r... I can see the same happen in my ancestry too. The ones who migrated back in 1900s or during t…

My great grandfather immigrated to USA in 1920s from Kapurthala in Punjab. Most of his descendants work as nurses if they went beyond high school, few went to college but almost all own property, so I’m not sure what you mean here.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#192

Post by aparsons »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #109
klyrs wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. Are you referring to the country's history of slavery, segregation and mass incarceration? Because I'd agree that "the environment" that black people are raised in is definitely shaped by racism, past and present. That you acknowledge its existence as a footnote makes me think you're underestimating the impact of 400 years of treating people…

That you insinuate i'm being racist even as you acknowledge my acknowledgement of the existence of racism just tells me that you're here to fight and not willing to have a civil discourse.

People get angry when the possibility that culture has something to do with black (vs asian, for example) success in America is floated. They will scream racism without even allowing the conversation.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#193

Post by Ghjklov »

the_omegist wrote: post #176
Ghjklov wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you are arguing these points at me. I didn't say anything about whites. Unarmed Asians being killed less by police and Asians being capable of racism doesn't mean Asian Americans are privileged lol. What are you trying to say bro? Just come out and say it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

I am not Asian and don't live in the US but i think you're forcing it a little on the drama. Sure the first Asians immigrants didn't have it easy. But since the 70s, Asian people benefit from a positive stereotype overall. In the job or education market, I can't see how you can argue Asian people have it harder than white people.

There's no positive stereotypes. Given the stereotype that Asians are smart, what happens to impoverished Asians who did not have a good education and upbringing and aren't as smart as others? They get demoralized and are cast aside in many cases.

I don't see how you could ever come to the conclusion that Asian people don't have it harder than white people given the wiki links I've provided. Given how American/white culture often disrespects and mocks Asian culture and classifies them as uncreative followers unfit to lead.

Asian success is not proof that Asians are privileged or have it easier than other people. Asian success came in spite of everything done to them in this country. They put their head down and gave their sweat and blood to get where they are now.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#194

Post by cbsks »

chii wrote: post #151
cbsks wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, of my friend group in college (at a large state school in the US) everyone who was financially stable eventually graduated with a bachelors degree. 3 out of 4 of my friends who were paying themselves through college dropped out. Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them.

> Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them. Would it have been better to part time both job and college? Instead of 3-4 yrs for a degree, it takes 6-8 years, but you also work part time during. This route exists for many colleges - why not do this?

I don't remember the specifics of 2 of my friends who dropped out, but one of my friends transitioned from working part time and going to school full time, to working part time and going to school part time, to working full time and going to school part time, to only working full time. The process took about 3 years.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#195

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

Udik wrote: post #160
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't be sorry. I thought it was a pretty rude question myself. Curiosity shouldn't be an excuse for being a jackhole.

Not that I want to discuss about manners but, after someone told you, unrequested, some very personal stuff, I don't find it impolite to ask some further detail- although I accept it if he doesn't want to answer. The question in itself wasn't out of idle curiosity but because the sentencing seems disproportionate. I wanted to double check this before launching in a tirade against the US justice :)

Fair enough. Asking personal questions out of idle curiosity is something I tend to be sensitive to, so I apologize if I seemed overly harsh.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#196

Post by codycraven »

chii wrote: post #151
cbsks wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, of my friend group in college (at a large state school in the US) everyone who was financially stable eventually graduated with a bachelors degree. 3 out of 4 of my friends who were paying themselves through college dropped out. Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them.

> Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them. Would it have been better to part time both job and college? Instead of 3-4 yrs for a degree, it takes 6-8 years, but you also work part time during. This route exists for many colleges - why not do this?

My wife and I personally did this. I took 6 years, she took 8 (we had a baby and she got a teaching credential, which is why hers took longer).

Graduated without any debt, but it was rediculously hard, especially in years 4-5.5 when I lost my job (2008 recession) and survived solely off rice, turkey hotdogs, and whitebread (leaving barely enough to cover diapers/medical.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#197

Post by frizzo____ »

whb07 wrote: post #178
Impossible wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In computer science, access to computers and being able to freely use, modify and program them is critical. Many Black adults had no or limited computer access as children. Even kids that did need to know that's it's possible to create software , which might require an adult that knows it also, and importantly be allowed to actually do so. Computers are expensive enough that many Black families would keep kids from u…

This is the largest crock of BS one could plausibly spin up to calm their minds from exploring the harsh reality. I worked for a bit with a Cuban immigrant who studied CS to a high level (post bachelors) without a computer. As in the university and the whole of society didn't have access to computers because you know....communism. He correctly retorted at my shock of "how can you do CS without a computer" question to…

He did not have access to a computer in Cuba because of the embargo, not communism.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#198

Post by the_omegist »

Ghjklov wrote: post #193
the_omegist wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not Asian and don't live in the US but i think you're forcing it a little on the drama. Sure the first Asians immigrants didn't have it easy. But since the 70s, Asian people benefit from a positive stereotype overall. In the job or education market, I can't see how you can argue Asian people have it harder than white people.

There's no positive stereotypes. Given the stereotype that Asians are smart, what happens to impoverished Asians who did not have a good education and upbringing and aren't as smart as others? They get demoralized and are cast aside in many cases. I don't see how you could ever come to the conclusion that Asian people don't have it harder than white people given the wiki links I've provided. Given how American/white…

Of course stereotypes can be positive (see the links provided). Either depending on the context or for the group overall. And, moreover, a stereotype doesn't come from nowhere. It's based on some factual truth.

So because some Asians aren't smart the fact Asians in general are seen as smart is bad for them? Why not see it from a different perspective : Asians that aren't so smart still benefit from the image that they are and may still get some advantage from it.

And you think there are no stereotypes about white people? Russians are alcoholics, latin people are ... etc. I think you're using "white" to mean WASP.

You can't have it all : if they're praised for being studious and disciplined they can't also be seen as super nonconformists and rebelles... Both type of traits involve a different mental structure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#199

Post by zimmern »

cbsks wrote: post #135
belval wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I can provide an interesting data point, I had access to a survey given to students at one college that asked a few questions to cross it with the student's results. Guess which was the undeniably most common issue among people failing two classes or more? Financial insecurity. It's hard figuring out a solution there as that was in a country with cheap (not free but still) education.

Anecdotally, of my friend group in college (at a large state school in the US) everyone who was financially stable eventually graduated with a bachelors degree. 3 out of 4 of my friends who were paying themselves through college dropped out. Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them.

>>>Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them.

Nobody said it would be easy. Having a part time job during the school year and a full time job during the summer is just what you have to do. So suck it up for 4 to 6 years like everyone else and quit complaining. So sick of lazy ass millenials crying about literally everything. You shits have the easiest/safest life in the history of the world, yet you still cry and complain. Sick of you cry babies.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#200

Post by david38 »

belval wrote: post #134
DeonPenny wrote: post #126

I'd like to see how many poorer men in general. I'm a black engineer and I couldn't count how many of my classmates would have graduated if they were in my shoes. There were 4-5 weeks at different where I just ran out money and sat on bed instead of eating thinking I couldn't be hungry is I was sleep. I usually found enough money to collect to buy a bag of rice for the month. But regardless of race this is hard. Give…

If I can provide an interesting data point, I had access to a survey given to students at one college that asked a few questions to cross it with the student's results. Guess which was the undeniably most common issue among people failing two classes or more? Financial insecurity. It's hard figuring out a solution there as that was in a country with cheap (not free but still) education.

Like all things you want to buy, sometimes you need to borrow or save beforehand.
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