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Why are there so few black people in STEM?

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Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#101

Post by selimthegrim »

scarface74 wrote: post #84
CyanLite2 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm black too, but I've had the opposite experience. Turned down at Google, Microsoft, and a few other Top N tech companies. Is it because I'm black? Probably not. But throughout all of the interviews, I've never met or seen another black engineer on the teams, let alone interviewed by one. It's hard enough to get through the hackerrank-style "gotcha" questions, but it's even harder to feel connected to an interviewe…

My virtual interviews with AWS were very structured and very much focused on soft skill questions and “describe your projects”. My only technical interview was the first one before I went through “the loop”. Anyone who studied for the AWS Architect Associate could pass it. Of course, I did have a resume that showed a lot of real world experience with AWS in particular and leading technical projects in general -thanks…

Do you think you're too old to put the month in grinding leetcode or just don't have the time?

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#102

Post by stareatgoats »

hardwaregeek wrote: post #43

I wonder how many people on HN have experienced being the only person of their race in the room. In my case I was put into a French public school where I was the only Asian student. It took me a bit to realize why I found that experience so shitty. The language and culture barrier was definitely a factor. But also it just sucks standing out. Sometimes this difference manifests as racism. Sometimes it manifests as sim…

> I wonder how many people on HN have experienced being the only person of their race in the room

I have that experience. In my 6th and 7th grade I attended a school in rural Tanzania. It was in the years following Tanzania's independence from colonial rule and there was a certain resentment towards us Europeans harbored by (many) teachers and students, and I was many times harassed and/or ridiculed, and subjected to corporal punishment for the slightest offense (in my own view at least). I have plenty of "charm and charisma" (again in my own view!) but could never get accustomed to the treatment. And indeed felt I shouldn't have to and so was eventually taken out and home schooled instead.

Now, did this break me, make me despondent or not believe in myself? It id not, and the reason is context. Because even if (many) young Tanzanians resented us Europeans, many if not most of the elderly did not. As a 12 year old it was not uncommon for me to be greeted with "shikamoo"(roughly meaning "I kiss the dust off your feet"), a greeting normally reserved for really old people - and people within the colonial administration. I was also treated as someone potentially very rich (not that I was, except relatively only). I still did not come away from the experience completely unscathed but that is another story.

I could go on but in short; being singled out or even maltreated on basis of skin color because people see you as privileged is something quite different than being disrespected because your skin color signals relative under-privilege. Which should give pause I believe. It may take a long while yet until our ethnically related appearances no longer play any role in our relationships.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#103

Post by scarface74 »

selimthegrim wrote: post #101
scarface74 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My virtual interviews with AWS were very structured and very much focused on soft skill questions and “describe your projects”. My only technical interview was the first one before I went through “the loop”. Anyone who studied for the AWS Architect Associate could pass it. Of course, I did have a resume that showed a lot of real world experience with AWS in particular and leading technical projects in general -thanks…

Do you think you're too old to put the month in grinding leetcode or just don't have the time?

Why would I? I got a job at Amazon (AWS Consulting) paying the same amount as a software engineer and it is a remote position that allows me to live in a relatively low cost of living area.

I did nothing special to prepare to work for Amazon. I just did my job, gained experience, and made sure I could answer soft skill questions based on the “Leadership Principles”.

I wasn’t even thinking about working at Amazon pre-Covid before my company had across the board pay cuts. My company made the announcement, the next day a recruiter from Amazon emailed me and I thought “Why Not?” They asked me to put in an application. I did it and a month and a half later I had an offer.

I definitely didn’t spend months “grinding leetCode” like the fresh college grads over at r/cscareerquestions.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#104

Post by [deleted] »

hardwaregeek wrote: post #43

I wonder how many people on HN have experienced being the only person of their race in the room. In my case I was put into a French public school where I was the only Asian student. It took me a bit to realize why I found that experience so shitty. The language and culture barrier was definitely a factor. But also it just sucks standing out. Sometimes this difference manifests as racism. Sometimes it manifests as sim…

[deleted]

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#105

Post by Ghjklov »

deogeo wrote: post #83
Ghjklov wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. Asians have earned everything they've attained in this country. They deserve whatever success they've gotten, and f…

Really? But according to mappingpoliceviolence.org, unarmed white people are killed by police at twice the rate of unarmed Asians, relative to their share of the population. Japan [1] and China [2,3] are openly ethno-nationalist, and India is even attempting to conduct demographic displacement in Kashmir [4]. Clearly Asians are just as capable of racism. Do you believe immigration into the US turns them all into die-…

I don't understand why you are arguing these points at me. I didn't say anything about whites. Unarmed Asians being killed less by police and Asians being capable of racism doesn't mean Asian Americans are privileged lol. What are you trying to say bro? Just come out and say it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

Anyway, Asians did not succeed from a position of privilege. They succeeded in spite of everything the American voter (largely white) voted for to keep them down.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#106

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

Ghjklov wrote: post #74
deogeo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? What about suggesting whites are (hypothetically) over-represented because they've made attaining education a priority? Forgive me for noticing, but "one-sided" doesn't even begin to describe this debate.

>Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. Asians have earned everything they've attained in this country. They deserve whatever success they've gotten, and f…

> "That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing."

As an Asian, I don't agree with that. Many Asians emigrated from Asia with very little possessions and started their lives in Western countries in conditions as bad or worse than the poorest native born, including a significant language barrier and, yes, racism in their newly adopted homelands. Yet, by and large, they have built successful lives.

I'd describe the statement as incredibly accurate and unequivocally true.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#107

Post by Ghjklov »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #106
Ghjklov wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. Asians have earned everything they've attained in this country. They deserve whatever success they've gotten, and f…

> " That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. " As an Asian, I don't agree with that. Many Asians emigrated from Asia with very little possessions and started their lives in Western countries in conditions as bad or worse than the poorest native born, incl…

I think you are misreading something. I am arguing against the suggestion that Asians have unearned privilege which allowed them to become successful in America.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#108

Post by downerending »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #64
downerending wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read his comment as "inherent racial disparities in ability". For basketball, I doubt you'll find many that disagree. For STEM, or computer programming and math at least, it's far harder to know. Certainly there are very few black people in tech/math, at least at the higher levels. Perhaps part of the problem is that empty virtue signaling (like banning the terms "master" and "slave") is easy, but actually doing th…

I'm implying no such thing. There's no gene for basketball, just as there's no gene for engineering. Yet, certain populations excel at one or the other. Aptitude arises out of cultural and socioeconomic factors. Clearly, science and engineering are not strong factors in some populations' culture and lifestyle. Whereas, it is a lifestyle from an early age for hundreds of millions of whites and Asians, mostly boys. The…

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. There is a gene for basketball--it's called being tall and fairly muscular. There's a reason why there are very few great Ashkenazi basketball players, and it's not racism or culture.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#109

Post by cocktailpeanuts »

klyrs wrote: post #88
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #36

People insinuate this is some sort of racism, but it actually has more to do with the incentive. People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. And if the majority of your peers see X as being "cool", that's what a lot of people will try to achieve. For example, during high school years, the "popular kids" are the jocks who play sports, not a geek who plays with code all day (although this…

> People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. Are you referring to the country's history of slavery, segregation and mass incarceration? Because I'd agree that "the environment" that black people are raised in is definitely shaped by racism, past and present. That you acknowledge its existence as a footnote makes me think you're underestimating the impact of 400 years of treating people…

That you insinuate i'm being racist even as you acknowledge my acknowledgement of the existence of racism just tells me that you're here to fight and not willing to have a civil discourse.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#110

Post by deogeo »

Ghjklov wrote: post #105
deogeo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? But according to mappingpoliceviolence.org, unarmed white people are killed by police at twice the rate of unarmed Asians, relative to their share of the population. Japan [1] and China [2,3] are openly ethno-nationalist, and India is even attempting to conduct demographic displacement in Kashmir [4]. Clearly Asians are just as capable of racism. Do you believe immigration into the US turns them all into die-…

I don't understand why you are arguing these points at me. I didn't say anything about whites. Unarmed Asians being killed less by police and Asians being capable of racism doesn't mean Asian Americans are privileged lol. What are you trying to say bro? Just come out and say it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

> I didn't say anything about whites.

When you say "odds are stacked against" someone, you have to compare to some other group to see what the "default" odds are. And privilege is not limited to the law. If a white person preferentially hires or promotes other whites, you'd claim those whites benefited from privilege. But you won't say the same for Asians, because of the Chinese Exclusion Act? Or because you just don't believe such a thing happens, despite evidence to the contrary [1,2]?

[1] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Elekta-RVW...

[2] https://qz.com/india/889524/the-us-says-oracle-is-encouragin...

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