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After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

latimes.com

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#301

Post by drekembe »

jobeirne wrote: post #97
nahtnam wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about anti-discrimnation laws? Where do you stand on the issue with the baker refusing to bake a cake for the gay couple?

In societies that have full respect for private property, I should be able to refuse to do business with you for any reason, including the color of your shoes, the kind of music you listen to, or your marital preferences. Whether it is wise or rationally self-interested to do so is a different question.

Maybe, but I would rather live in a society that has full respect for people than full respect for private property.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#302

Post by brightball »

jjice wrote: post #175
shaggyfrog wrote: post #77

There are a few comments in here already decrying “politicization”. Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; even suggesting you can be politically neutral is a political stance that comes from a place of privilege, because only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble. Collaboration with ICE is collaboration…

Not a direct reply to your comment, but more of an adjacent one. > Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; But I do choose to avoid them in my personal life. A private company can do whatever the hell they want, whether I approve or not, it's their right. I also believe it is my right to not care about politics and continue moving forward with my own life.…

Exactly this. Choosing to remove politics from your life is an acknowledgement that very little good comes of it.

It comes down to “Control what you can control.”

So much of politics comes down to trying to control other people, whether it be their thoughts, actions, view points, money or rights. It’s an unhealthy topic that tends to leave everyone involved angry.

Choosing to ignore it is an acknowledgement that you don’t want the anger and that the benefit of your anger is rarely, if ever, worth it.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#303

Post by Miner49er »

brabel wrote: post #170
jobeirne wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a private entity, especially for essentially political reasons, is lunacy. Um, think you've got this backwards. Private entities shouldn't have to take on anyone they don't want as customers (for whatever reason - do you have to justify who you do or don't want in your livingroom?), but publicly-funded institutions shouldn't be able to deny service o…

I am strongly against a private business being able to refuse service to a person/organization on political grounds, even when the "victim" may seem to be performing evil actions, as long as it is not breaking any laws. One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion. Refusing service is clearly a form of discrimination. When you aim that towards your own Government…

This goes way too far in limiting freedom IMO. It makes sense to not let people discriminate on things that are immutable (like skin color), but it's crazy to not let discrimination happen on things that are a choice.

Just like I can decide not to let people not wearing shoes or shirts into my business, why shouldn't I be able to deny entry to a neo-Nazi? What if I'm losing black customers because I have racists regularly visiting my store?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#304

Post by flamble »

Fellshard wrote: post #11
duxup wrote: post #6

Is GitHub a hug part of what ICE ... does? Personally I wouldn't want to work for a company actually detaining people, but call me terrible but I'm not sure I'd feel the same about letting them pay to host some code...

There's a big strain of consequentialism running through the modern left - no neutral service is held as neutral if it permits the 'wrong' customers.

No reasonable conception of ethics is anything but consequentialist. Do you intend the word as a criticism? Do you have some alternate, deontological, view?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#305

Post by VBprogrammer »

kuzimoto wrote: post #265
jobeirne wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope - in free societies you should be able to refuse service on any grounds, including those things. Otherwise you're permitting the government to forcibly compel you to allocate your time and resources to ends they define. In free societies, governments should only be able to forcibly compel people not to do things (murder, threaten, steal, etc.) - see the concept of "negative rights."

You are completely right. In a free society you should have the liberty to do business with whomever you want (no matter how politically in-correct your reasoning is). The great thing about this, is that someone else will realize there is now an under-served market, and create a business to fulfill that need. The same case can be made for hiring practices.

> is that someone else will realize there is now an under-served market, and create a business to fulfill that need.

That is a childishly simplistic understanding of how free markets work. There is no way a retail business would be established to service the needs of 2% of the population who are wheelchair users for example, when they could easily make their stores considerably more efficient by making the aisles a little narrower.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#306

Post by monocasa »

paiute wrote: post #282
mchanson wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civility has already broken down because of the US government’s actions. Schools and other parts of the government are ending their contracts with police. People all over the country and looking hard at their actions and the actions of those companies or other entities they associate with. When the government is acting this badly the social contract gets weaker and begins to fall apart. This is just a reaction to tho…

The U.S. Government does not have police contracts with schools. Police are state, county, or local. The last few weeks have made it clear to me very few people understand our system of gov.

The state, county, and local govs are a part of the US government. The supremacy clause sees to that.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#307

Post by pchristensen »

deadalus wrote: post #235
chasing wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, but also companies exist literally only to make money. False.

Shareholders don't want to make money? That's not their primary goal?

For a lot of them, no. Also, even if they only want to make money, they will have different opinions about how different company strategies will succeed, and be interested in different time frames.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#308

Post by shaggyfrog »

lurknn wrote: post #272
shaggyfrog wrote: post #77

There are a few comments in here already decrying “politicization”. Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; even suggesting you can be politically neutral is a political stance that comes from a place of privilege, because only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble. Collaboration with ICE is collaboration…

I once met a man who was a who believed deeply in aestheticism. His perception was that the only thing that mattered was the aesthetics of the thing, nothing more. Morality took a second seat, as did everything else. I could not, for the life of me, convince him that life is a bit more multidimensional than that. With each topic, he would aestheticize it, if you will, then speak of how his aesthetization of the topic…

Politics is the process of making a decision, so my point is that decision-making is inherently political.

Your comment — and subtle trailing insult — is not constructive and non-sequitur.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#309

Post by unnouinceput »

Quote: "What I’ve learned from her is that keeping technology from ICE actively harms those vulnerable populations,” he wrote."

Let's assume Microsoft in general, and GitHub in particular will get their way and severe ties with ICE. Guess what's going to happen next?

a- Suddenly ICE is going to become a nice entity and everything going to be peachy

or

b- Chinese will supply the software instead, or worse, is going to be internally made by government, meaning NSA will have another wet dream come true

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#310

Post by sdwedq »

jjice wrote: post #175
shaggyfrog wrote: post #77

There are a few comments in here already decrying “politicization”. Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; even suggesting you can be politically neutral is a political stance that comes from a place of privilege, because only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble. Collaboration with ICE is collaboration…

Not a direct reply to your comment, but more of an adjacent one. > Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; But I do choose to avoid them in my personal life. A private company can do whatever the hell they want, whether I approve or not, it's their right. I also believe it is my right to not care about politics and continue moving forward with my own life.…

You are lucky that you can ignore politics.

As a minority, who has repeatedly faced discrimination; at various jobs, airports, in restaurants, and at social events, I cannot ignore it.

Also I believe it is a moral obligation to stand up for weak. So even if you are privileged enough to be not affected by politics, you should participate in it for your weaker friends and family.

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