221–230 of 251 posts
> but also terms like "blacklist" and "whitelist" for "allow list" and "deny/exclude list." Seriously?
Allow/deny listing makes a lot more sense to me than white/black listing
But where would "greylist" fit in here? It slotted in nicely between whitelist and blacklist, and I'm not sure what a good name would be in the context of "allow list" and "deny/block list"?
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> Because I talked to them and they told me. That's precisely why I'm saying you're generalizing entire races (not just black people either, which is even weirder that you claim all minorities are ravaged by "microaggressions") based on a sample.
> That's precisely why I'm saying you're generalizing entire races No, your question was "how do you know first hand that any of these people care?" I know that any of these people care, and first hand, because they told me. That's the opposite of your claim that I'm generalizing. > you claim all minorities are ravaged by "microaggressions" Another strawman. I never said that. You still have not provided a source tha…
This is getting ridiculous and annoying. When I hear about slavery, I think about the poor people that did not have any freedom, not about black people. There have been african slaves in africa, asian slaves in asia, european slaves in europe and native american slaves in native american civilizations for thousands of years. American people are projecting their very own and specific segregation problems onto the whol…
> When I hear about slavery, I think about the poor people that did not have any freedom, not about black people. There have been african slaves in africa, asian slaves in asia, european slaves in europe and native american slaves in native american civilizations for thousands of years. Yes, slavery has been around for a long time in many countries, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve our terminology. >…
To me it feels like GitHub wants to have the illusion of being progressive while changing something that nobody considered even remotely offensive literally 24h ago
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https://twitter.com/tobie/status/1270290278029631489?s=21
Ok im clearly still missing something. Git uses master on its own for the master branch. Master has multiple meanings, only one of which is not racist, but insensitive to use. Bitkeeper, an earlier vcs uses the terminology master/slave branches. And that some how transfers to git? Because the kernel used to use bitkeeper? Thats a stretch. And github starts renaming it because? Its virtue signaling instead of doing so…
https://mobile.twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441
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Etymology matters if enough people think it matters. Language has meaning that is social, and if enough people dislike a meaning or see a word a different way, that word will change its meaning. So right now we are watching words change meaning.
One dude? on twitter is enough people to change the meaning of the word? And that has something to do with explaining the long string of assumptions that nobody is willing to address?
https://mobile.twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441
Woops.
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If you attack another user like this on HN, we will ban you, regardless of how wrong they are or how right you are or how wrong you feel they are or how right you feel you are. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23519070 was already over the line. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Then please delete it. I have no delete button. You have already deleted my original answer to which the fellow made an unobjective comment against my integrity. As it stands now, a wrong impression about the course of the conversation is created. Therefore please also delete https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23519104 .
"Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it." George Orwell, 1984
I really don't understand why someone sees the necessity to flag something like this. It perfectly fits the topic under discussion and doesn't violate any HN rule. This is world literature and can still inspire us to think seventy years later when we see which developments, considered dystopian in 1948, have become reality today in the described or analogous way.
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Allow/deny listing makes a lot more sense to me than white/black listing
These terms at least make as much sense as the old ones. But where would "greylist" fit in here? It slotted in nicely between whitelist and blacklist, and I'm not sure what a good name would be in the context of "allow list" and "deny/block list"?
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Why does replacing a handful of offensive terms with more accurate words require "restructuring the entire English language"? Unless you can make a case for that, the logical conclusion is that those handful of words will go out of favor and the impact to the "entire English language" will be negligible.
You want to rewrite parts the language because a few people are offended? Do you realize how often people are offended at the most miniscule and obnoxious things? I think the slippery slope argument applies here.
Secondly, from looking at the history of the term whitelist/blacklist, they are not rooted racially. Why does there need to be any more discussion here?
This isn't PoC crying for change. This is a bunch of privileged white people sitting around wondering what words they should replace while PoC are getting gunned down by the powers that be.
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I'm a little confused about why GitHub is doing this. The master/slave thing I get - there's a direct link to actual slavery there, and it can be replaced with terms like leader/follower or primary/replica fairly easily. But the "master" branch in Git doesn't have a slave branch. It's a master from which copies are made (as in a "master recording"), which is a different sense of the word.
This tweet seems to have researched otherwise - that master/slave originated from bit keeper: https://twitter.com/tobie/status/1270290278029631489?s=21
I talked about this today with a black coworker (obviously doesn't represent the feelings of all black people etc), and he actually got quite angry about it - but he was angry at the idea of changing master to main, not the idea of keeping it! From his perspective, it's nothing more than virue signalling, a distraction from real issues. He also thought it risked ridicule, and that things like this risk turning people against real change. He did kind of see the point about the separate blacklist/whitelist debate though.
Personally, instead of "master" I like the word "trunk", as I think it goes well with the branching concept.
Great, so "main" now means "master"? So, what's the difference?
Maybe direct that question to someone who's dealt with the effects of systemic racism their whole life, you might find the answer enlightening.