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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#881

Post by proc0 »

Pfhreak wrote: post #16

Seattle police vacated the east precinct, fully expecting protesters to burn it down. Instead, the protesters set up an open zone, compiled a set of demands, and from all accounts set up something cool and unique. Here's hoping it sustains itself for a while.

It will be fun to watch how they eat each other alive.

I would have believed it plausible had they gone outside the city to some secluded area to create their utopia, but it's being done on existing buildings they did not build, and property that is not theirs but I guess their "revolution" is to not give two shits about anything.

I give them at most one more week.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#882

Post by proc0 »

deathgrips wrote: post #185
nikkwong wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm personally very worried about this as someone who is heavily invested in the real estate market here. The issue of how to deal with the rapid growth in the city is multifaceted and it's difficult to pitch a stance on. At the very least, you could easily make an argument that a rising tide does not lift all boats; i.e. many people are personally not benefiting much from the tech-boom in the area. On the other…

>Should people really be entitled to live in an expensive city that they cannot afford? Cities like Manhattan or SF have sort of taken a stance on that and it favors the prosperous. I find it eerie that you're excluding from the equation the tens of thousands of homeless people in those cities. The right question is "to what lengths should we go to give people the ability to live with a roof over their heads?" The ba…

"most people are barely offering human empathy to the homeless. "

Enough with patronizing. They are not children or robots with no freewill. They have made decisions in their own lives and they need to own up to them. Not holding people accountable makes them more like children, and they are more likely to stay where they are FOREVER. They will all stay on the streets until old age and die there if you think it's not their own fault.

If you can't a afford a city, then MOVE. Guess what though, in cities like SF, they didn't.

They stayed, destroyed SF for decades, and now it is very clear... SF has made its choice... to become the home for the homeless, as a mass exodus occurs.

People are tired of shit and used needles on the sidewalk, dangerous insane people roaming everywhere, extremely expensive food and living, all while the leadership pats itself on the back for being woke. Enjoy your post-apocalyptic shitty.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#883

Post by tekknik »

ubercow13 wrote: post #780
AnHonestComment wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per arrest to one year of driving: you would have to be arrested ten times in a year for your risk from the police to match your risk driving a car that year. Per arrest for violent crime (where most of the deaths occur), blacks are safer than whites. I’ve been reviewing the footage from Seattle — and protestors started every instance of violence by first getting forceful with the cops. Show me any evidence that ther…

It doesn’t seem minor compared to other countries police forces. Why should being killed by the police be acceptable as long as the risk is lower than that from traffic?

Because we need laws and punishments to enforce those laws. What other countries have a population as diverse as the US and then let’s see some stats.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#884

Post by tekknik »

mayniac wrote: post #472
jakelazaroff wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I truly don't understand the problem here. Can you tell me what it is that makes these people dangerous and scary, but the similarly armed protestors who showed up at government buildings a month ago — or, frankly, the police — fine?

People aren't just scared of the idea of armed police, they're afraid of police departments who have a history of getting away with murder. John Brown Gun Club and Redneck Revolt don't have that history. There were also rumours of proud boys and other far-right groups attacking CHAZ. It's understandable that people would be more comfortable with vocally anti-fascist gun clubs defending them than the police, who often…

can you describe what you mean by “proud boys”? I have a bad feeling this word should actually be “patriots”

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#885

Post by tekknik »

kortex wrote: post #872
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then, what? Suppose the world agrees to dismantle its nuclear arsenal but a single nation, the great atomic nation of Nuclearia, decides that it will keep its weapons and it will destroy the world unless every other nation obeys its rule. And assume Nuclearia has magickal weapons that do not affect Nuclearia lands, or its citizens. The world refuses to obey and Nuclearia unleashes the nuclear holocaust. Now what?…

I was actually talking about gun ownership, not nukes, but it's eerily similar. You don't glass everybody immediately. Nuclearia basically does a protection racket. Do what we want, or we progressively make an example of you. Each "round" is 1) issue demand 2) if no compliance, respond with N units of force 3) N++ 4) repeat until results. Rebels get the Alderaan treatment. Rule by fear. Either every country decides t…

I feel like you need to read the history of at least WW2 again just based off of that 3rd to last sentence.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#886

Post by tekknik »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #765
ChristianBundy wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of it like nuclear weapons: it'd be great if they didn't exist at all, but if they do exist and are stockpiled by people who want to hurt us, then the only responsible action is to arm ourselves in self-defense. In other words: > An unarmed people are slaves or are subject to slavery at any given moment. > -- Huey P Newton

That's MAD, right? Mutually Assured Destruction. Well, that is the logic of a species that has gone kookoo bonkers bannanas bongos mad and thinks that "let's all threaten each other with total anihilation" is "rational". Why is it so hard to agree to not destroy each other needlessly instead?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_equilibrium

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#887

Post by proc0 »

deathgrips wrote: post #283
nikkwong wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homelessness is a complex problem which I believe namely stems from psychological and substance abuse disorders. I think there is likely a relationship between the amount of income inequality in a society and the amount of homelessness. I do believe that we should support the homeless populations of our cities; but if you're familiar with Seattle's homelessness problems in particular, you'll know that the city has es…

>Homelessness is a complex problem which I believe namely stems from psychological and substance abuse disorders I think this is about as useful as saying "homelessness is caused by loitering". We're confusing cause and effect. Try living on the streets for a few years where people treat you worse than shit without developing some mental illness or abusing drugs to deal with the stress and loneliness. If you think th…

" why do you think San Francisco has by a long shot the highest rate of homelessness in America? "

I can answer this, I lived there since 2005 until this month.

The problem is once you stop enforcing the law it creates incentives for all kinds of people to try it out. This created a diverse population of people who are living outside, from mentally ill, to seemingly normal young people fixing bikes in their tents, to dangerous drug addicts that won't hesitate to stab you.

The problem is there is a law and it is not being enforced. People take advantage of this. Thinking everybody is a poor soul that would buy housing if it existed is an extremely naive view. The homeless population is very diverse in terms of reasons they are out there. SF leadership treats all of them as if it had one solution, so of course that will not work. Some people out there want to be there. You can see they are young and don't mind sleeping in a tent. Others are just out of their minds and need intervention ASAP.

RIP SF

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#888

Post by tekknik »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #448
dgellow wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect that someone with an assault weapon and what looks like a bullet proof vest is scary for quite a lot of people. And that's notable in the sense that is goes against the idea of "a peaceful event similar to a music festival" (paraphrasing).

But you see stuff like that at music festivals as well, in the form of police. So I'm asking why this is scary or notable but that is not.

You don’t see a police officer at a music festival in the US with an AR-15. In fact in california (yes seattle) that specific rifle has been under attack for private ownership for a while with such things like “that gun is only meant to kill efficiently, no person needs one”. So, while not entirely on subject, I have a question as to what changed and why now the same groups of people trying to get this rifle banned are now walking the streets with them.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#889

Post by tekknik »

c22 wrote: post #852
wildmusings wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because these people have claimed territory and held themselves out as challenging the sovereignty of the United States. So the implication is pretty clear, that the guns are there as a show of that sovereignty. Are they serious about using them? Who knows.

Challenging the authority of the police department is not anywhere close to "challenging the sovereignty of the United States". No new state is being proposed, no old state is being dissolved. The people (in whom the power of sovereignty resides in the United States) are merely promoting policy change. Do you think if the U.S. Army marched on the CHAZ that these people would fight them? Do you think there's any chanc…

So to recap, these people know that if the US national guard (not the army) marched on them they’d lose, so then what is the purpose of the guns? Shoot civilians? Shoot protestors? Who is getting shot by these weapons? If nobody then why are they there? What law(s) give them the right to enforce the law on their own?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#890

Post by tekknik »

numpad0 wrote: post #807
dmoy wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, I'm being needlessly pedantic here :) And who knows, they could have bought the parts and assembled it, if they can find things in stock somewhere.

Looks like a completely stock S&W M&P 15 Sport II, 16” barrel, GI style mag, collapsible stock, plus a cheap airsoft optic. M&P 15 is a complete knockoff of US military M4/M4A1 carbine, except barrel is longer and has no full auto function to comply with regulations. Way too boring configuration to build from parts or build out of an 80% blank, and also probably not an airsoft. Disclaimer: I’m an airsofter outside US…

You got this backwards, an M4 is actually a knock off of the AR-15. That is to say the AR-15 came before both the M16 and the M4 and both of those guns were built from the AR-15.
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