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Julian Assange in Limbo

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Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#101

Post by jorge-d »

iaw wrote: post #86

Julian took an action that has consequences. The US is (in)famous for its 'soft power'. While the US wont outright kill him they will leverage their soft power to neutralize his ability to harm future operations. He played the espionage game without an explicit state sponsor, jail time was the best outcome he could hope for. Sadly because he doesn't have a state sponsor the likelihood of an exchange is.... low.

I have a hard time understanding how playing the "espionage game" in a country were you don't even live can even be procecuted. US law is not supposed to apply abroad. But yeah that's where that "Soft Power" card comes into play I guess.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#102

Post by american_aurora »

Doubl wrote: post #19
jedberg wrote: post #12

> But today Ellsberg is celebrated as the patron saint of whistleblowers while Assange is locked in a cell in London’s Belmarsh maximum security prison for 23 and a half hours a day. Ellsberg was charged with a bunch of crimes too, which would have resulted in 100+ years of jail time. He's considered a good person now because he defended himself and won. It should also be noted that he very much supports Wikileaks. I…

Broadly? I thinks that's a very American centric perspective. About the last system of justice I'd like to find myself at the mercy of outside those in totalitarian countries is the American one. It has earned itself an awful reputation, in Europe, at least. It's such a shame that countries like the UK appear to be behaving like client states of America.

I think this is a ridiculous perspective, especially when virtually every European countries is on the inquisitorial system. (See The Trial.)

It is my opinion that the US is probably one of the best countries when it comes to the rights of a defendant ― well, before a guilty verdict.

I ask that you actually take a look at some of the kinds of people who run the federal courts in the United States. See something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXv7anhiIBY. These are serious legitimate people who are working in and trying to improve a highly developed yet highly imperfect legal system (and country).

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#103

Post by runawaybottle »

dependenttypes wrote: post #95
eyelidlessness wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s not the worst criminal that ever existed. He’s also not the best whistleblower that ever existed. He’s a guy who helped expose things that were important to know about, who’s also a narcissist and very probably a rapist. He doesn’t deserve to be punished inappropriately for exposing what he exposed, he doesn’t deserve to be exonerated for the actual crimes he committed, and he doesn’t deserve to be treated as a…

> who’s also a narcissist What makes you think that? Even if he is though, so what? > he doesn’t deserve to be exonerated for the actual crimes he committed Certainly, although I think that the 8 years that he spent in the embassy are more than enough of a punishment for the condom crime. > and he doesn’t deserve to be treated as a hero for accepting a role as an agent of weaponized information for a global fascist m…

I personally no longer accept the classification of narcissism. Something so general that it’s based on Greek mythology (embarrassing ultimately, that a pseudo scientific field seeking legitimacy resorts to a fictional parallel - yep, that’s the way to do it, just read the wikis on Narcissistic supply, and you wonder if the hacks haven’t taken control of the wheel and done a full blown imitation of Freud. The modern version of the Oedipus Complex, and the professional and layman throw it around, like it’s real. We’ve become embarrassing. If you majored in Psych, please, take yourself to the nearest bootcamp and learn web development so we never have to hear your nonsense.). By definition we can characterize a mass of people under the term for taking selfies (and a whole lot of selfies).

Self absorption shouldn’t be a damning trait, it’s pervasive in humanity.

So you’re self absorbed, so be it, what are the actual things you’ve done? Now we enter the meat.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#104

Post by fractallyte »

fit2rule wrote: post #16
runawaybottle wrote: post #13

I forget. Anyone know why we’re treating Julian Assange like the worst criminal that ever existed? “ Those two shootings were a thousand times repeated, though the reports were rare in admitting that the victims were civilians. More usually, the dead were automatically identified as ‘terrorists’ caught in the act, regardless of evidence to the contrary. ” Here’s an argument against Leetcode. There are real patterns i…

Because he revealed evidence of one of the worst crimes committed by humanity in the last 100 years? 4 million innocent people murdered in illegal wars is a lot of blood on the hands of the American people. And, we all know how much they hate to be embarrassed by such things ..

4 million innocent people murdered in illegal wars is a lot of blood on the hands of the American people

That's very simplistic, and ignorant. Those deaths were the result of the dissolution of a regime forcefully (ie. using terror) to hold together an unstable populace. Sure, it was triggered by US actions, but that's really not the same thing...

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#105

Post by fractallyte »

barry-cotter wrote: post #62
asjw wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one of the worst crimes committed by humanity in the last 100 years? As much as I oppose to US military politics, I think that in the past 100 years there have been much worse crimes than US wars in the middle east. If I think of the worst criminal of the modern era (post WW2) the first name that comes to mind is Vladimir Putin. For once: he wiped a tenth of the entire Chechen population, it's like if someone order…

> If I think of the worst criminal of the modern era (post WW2) the first name that comes to mind is Vladimir Putin. Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin

Yes, and one would think that after all those examples of fine leadership, us 'civilized' nations would have learned a thing or two?

Putin's regime carried out these crimes in the Caucasus in the 21st century (and earlier), and they are continuing even as you read this comment...

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#106

Post by runawaybottle »

catalogia wrote: post #67
fit2rule wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he revealed evidence of one of the worst crimes committed by humanity in the last 100 years? 4 million innocent people murdered in illegal wars is a lot of blood on the hands of the American people. And, we all know how much they hate to be embarrassed by such things ..

> 4 million innocent people murdered in illegal wars You've mentioned this number a few times, but I can't find a source for it. Can you point me in the right direction?

I don’t think 4 million will be a verifiable number, but the wiki on Iraq war details somewhere in the half a million via various examinations:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

If we include Afghanistan, we could be in the million range.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#107

Post by xtracto »

jorge-d wrote: post #101
iaw wrote: post #86

Julian took an action that has consequences. The US is (in)famous for its 'soft power'. While the US wont outright kill him they will leverage their soft power to neutralize his ability to harm future operations. He played the espionage game without an explicit state sponsor, jail time was the best outcome he could hope for. Sadly because he doesn't have a state sponsor the likelihood of an exchange is.... low.

I have a hard time understanding how playing the "espionage game" in a country were you don't even live can even be procecuted. US law is not supposed to apply abroad. But yeah that's where that "Soft Power" card comes into play I guess.

> US law is not supposed to apply abroad

That's what the "Imperialism" monkier that a lot of "enemies of the USA" coin means. The Megaupload guy, a guy from Australia, Hew Raymond Griffiths (copyright infrignment... really?) and Gary McKinnon (admin/admin Windows machines).

On this day an age, the majority of countries will bow to the USA and give anything the country asks for. Few countries are really independent and would dare to stand up even for their own citizens. It is sad, but countries like Russia and China doing "what is right" to balance that sort of power is a scary situation where we have arrived.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#108

Post by xtracto »

throwtruthaway2 wrote: post #96
dang wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you didn't routinely break the site guidelines you'd find it easy enough to participate. Note that this thread is on the front page.

its amazing the audacity you have and the constant lying that is done by the moderation team. 'autodead' comments is clearly a way to stifle voices that don't tow the acceptable narrative. I've had and seen accounts banned that never violated any guidelines -- once an account was deleted that posted 'generic' comments -- what does that even mean? again lies. Some commenters get special privileges, are allowed to post…

> Congratulations on supporting the empire's propaganda.

Mate, I think I agree with a lot of the sentiment that you mention here... but you can be more productive in your narrative. This is not reddit nor slashdot; just put some effort.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#109

Post by Craighead »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #89
asjw wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> flight to asylum in Russia. Ironically Snowden tweets about freedom of information from Russia, where Putin literally kills journalists

Ironically the US, the "land of the free", forced Snowden to stay in Russia because that's where he happened to be when the US canceled his passport.

Ironically had Snowden sought mental health assistance he wouldn't be in Russia after breaking into secure systems he never received authorization to

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#110

Post by telesilla »

Svperstar wrote: post #84
jariel wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sounds like the NSA who couldn't point to a single instance of stopping any type of terrorist attack/operation despite collecting anything they could get their hands on." This is kind of a misrepresentation of the situation. Manning leaked mostly diplomatic cables, the contents of which he was unaware of, thereby harming his whistleblower credentials. The contents were not what we would regard as 'intelligence infor…

>I wonder what caused them to turn. He wanted Trump to win the 2016 election.

Do you have a source for that?
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