The American Press Is Destroying Itself • Hacker News Board

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#221

Post by watwut » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:03 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #153

danaris wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If anyone questions the insane dogma that has taken over the newsrooms pushed by the far left So...out of curiosity, just what do you see as being this "insane dogma" "pushed by the far left"? Because so far as I can tell, America still doesn't have anything that could reasonably be called a "far left" that's being taken seriously by any mainstream media. The most extreme positions I've heard recently that have gai…

Just want to point out: The media doesn't ever report the numbers on police violence. They report the emotion. Including both armed and unarmed people, just over 1000 people were killed by US police in 2019. What percentage of those were black? Approximately 24 percent. Did you know that? Did it surprise you? I assumed it was 75 percent. 24 percent is very bad, since black Americans are 13 percent of the population.…

If you want studies in media about police and raise e, Radley Balko has multiple articles with exactly that.

He is libertarian if that matters.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#222

Post by dang » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:03 PM UTC

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #215

havelhovel wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not following this logic. People are expressing themselves and others are responding as they see fit: agreement, condemnation, silence, etc. It sounds like a marketplace of ideas in a free society. No one is having their basic human rights taken away from them because someone else called them a bigot. If you’re uncomfortable with someone’s ideas making them a pariah, you’re describing a basic social dilemma that…

> People are expressing themselves and others are responding as they see fit: agreement, condemnation, silence, etc. It sounds like a marketplace of ideas in a free society. So to you, a marketplace of ideas is one side dictates what is allowed to be said, and anyone who deviates from this deserves to be a pariah? What about that is free or a marketplace of ideas? > No one is having their basic human rights taken awa…

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. This thread is managing to stay barely on the ok side, and your comment here crosses noticeably closer to flamewar hell. Please step the other way instead. You'll make a better argument that way, have a greater chance of persuading others or at least connecting with them, and maybe even feel better too.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#223

Post by refurb » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

hobs wrote: post #130

Shivetya wrote: post #91

What I find most reprehensible about this whole situation is that more and more members of the left regulate political discourse, no make that any discourse, by defining any opposing view as illegitimate, bigoted, and now violence. As in, they are taking the position that their moral superiority is without question and anyone who does not ascribe to this has no rights and we are nearing the point of the same having n…

So, our president literally said to use violence against protestors protesting bigotry. When you find yourself being called a bigot and white supremacist repeatedly, its probably not "the left" that's the problem.

This viewpoint makes zero sense to me:

- protesting starts

- some protestors get violent

- President says "let's use the military to end violence"

And you come away with "our president literally said to use violence against protestors protesting bigotry".

What?

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#224

Post by gopi » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #62

I don't think they are. I think they are optimizing for survival. Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. Few people would consume it (or even be capable of doing so), even fewer are ready to pay the real price of it. So they did the next best thing: they changed to please the market in a way that makes money. Grabbing a lot of attention, as cheaply as possible, so that you can sell it to the hi…

True, subscription is the main revenue source, not ads in this new media environment. So the way to optimize is to find a most passionate tribe and serve their point of view.

This is why NYT is going to stop growing if Trump loses in November. With no need to resist there is no need to subscribe

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#225

Post by iron0013 » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #36

The New Yorker depiction of this very site (or was it the Atlantic) was particularly egregious.

Really? I thought it was pretty astute.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#226

Post by Good_Karma » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #58

Tenoke wrote: post #40

Great article but it's so depressing that it starts with disinformation by claiming Trump said it is a great day for Floyd due to unemployment numbers (actually discussed completely separately in that speech). He said it's a great day due to increasing equality. [0] Twisting someone's words to make them look worse in a piece that rightly blames others for doing so is just sad. So I am asking again - Why do even the s…

There is a very long history of mainstream media taking a Trump quote, not just out of context, but actively rewriting it to mean the exact opposite of what he is saying. From Charlottesville to this, you can safely bet that anything reconciliatory that Trump says will be twisted into something divisive through intentionally misreporting what was said. This is the actual quote. The fact is that he made this remark du…

The best account of the current trajectory of the media landscape I have found is in what was meant to be a sci-fi story called American Goldmine by Paolo Bacigalupi published here ;

https://www.sfsite.com/fsf/toc1909.htm

It's exactly where this is going. Honestly worth the short read. Scary stuff. The 1984 of mainstream media, and it's ( also ) right around the corner.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#227

Post by mellosouls » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC

iron0013 wrote: post #214

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just doesn't really address the substance of the issue. It may well be true that the NYT has no financial choice but pander to the readers who consider non-controversial majority views to be fascist. That doesn't change the problematic effects of such viewpoint narrowing.

Tom Cotton’s views were in no way non-controversial or of the majority.

They hardly indicate he's a fascist.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#228

Post by ashtonkem » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #62

I don't think they are. I think they are optimizing for survival. Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. Few people would consume it (or even be capable of doing so), even fewer are ready to pay the real price of it. So they did the next best thing: they changed to please the market in a way that makes money. Grabbing a lot of attention, as cheaply as possible, so that you can sell it to the hi…

The press as a high minded arbiter of truth is a relatively new concept; historically journalism has been bitterly partisan and often misleading at best. Arguably the current trend is a return to historical norms, not an aberration to be feared.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#229

Post by thisiszilff » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

iron0013 wrote: post #214

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just doesn't really address the substance of the issue. It may well be true that the NYT has no financial choice but pander to the readers who consider non-controversial majority views to be fascist. That doesn't change the problematic effects of such viewpoint narrowing.

Tom Cotton’s views were in no way non-controversial or of the majority.

The op-ed cites the statistic:

> According to a recent poll, 58 percent of registered voters, including nearly half of Democrats and 37 percent of African-Americans, would support cities' calling in the military to "address protests and demonstrations" that are in "response to the death of George Floyd."

As evidence that the view espoused in Cotton's op-ed are the majority's view. Do you have a source saying that that is false?

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#230

Post by mellosouls » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #116

hcayless wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m interested that this is getting downvoted. It seems perfectly fair comment to me. Newspapers can not afford to massively alienate their readership, and both of these cases clearly did just that. That calls into question the editors’ fitness for their jobs.

I didn't downvote, but similar pushes for message purity are happening in center-right media, just focused on complete political support for Trump. I think it is ill advised to silence critics. My instincts are to apply the same principles to political movements that we apply to political leadership. There always needs to be a place to voice dissent not because dissent is always beneficial, but because the lack of ci…

The right isn't attempting to control thought and speech though, not remotely to the extent that the left is.