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The American Press Is Destroying Itself

taibbi.substack.com

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Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#191

Post by [deleted] »

JPKab wrote: post #153
danaris wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If anyone questions the insane dogma that has taken over the newsrooms pushed by the far left So...out of curiosity, just what do you see as being this "insane dogma" "pushed by the far left"? Because so far as I can tell, America still doesn't have anything that could reasonably be called a "far left" that's being taken seriously by any mainstream media. The most extreme positions I've heard recently that have gai…

Just want to point out: The media doesn't ever report the numbers on police violence. They report the emotion. Including both armed and unarmed people, just over 1000 people were killed by US police in 2019. What percentage of those were black? Approximately 24 percent. Did you know that? Did it surprise you? I assumed it was 75 percent. 24 percent is very bad, since black Americans are 13 percent of the population.…

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Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#192

Post by mancerayder »

JPKab wrote: post #155
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"The War in Iraq was not a conservative/liberal issue" It was. You must be young. The NYT was a big reason that the center left went along with it. I have never forgiven them for that. You are assuming that I support Trump, or that the author does. I don't, and he doesn't. You are engaging in what-aboutism. Two things can be true at the same time. Sorry if I'm not as tribal as you are. Feel free to go find that on Tw…

> You are assuming that I support Trump, or that the author does. I don't, and he doesn't. You are engaging in what-aboutism.

Seeing the person you're responding to's attitude fills me with a sort of depressing frustration. As a center-left person myself, I engage with people and I'm always up against the wall of what-aboutism. If I criticize Trump those folks start a rant about Obama or Biden. If I criticize the topic we're talking about here, I'm reminded about how mean the GOP is.

For years I've been trying to wrap my head around this.

HN doesn't like political conversation, I get it. But a HN-friendly topic would be, is technology itself to blame for this insane bifurcation of conversation, from topic-by-topic or subject-oriented reasoning and debate, to this head-scratching angry tribalism? Or is it just human nature somehow (whatever that means)?

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#193

Post by [deleted] »

havelhovel wrote: post #177
Shivetya wrote: post #91

What I find most reprehensible about this whole situation is that more and more members of the left regulate political discourse, no make that any discourse, by defining any opposing view as illegitimate, bigoted, and now violence. As in, they are taking the position that their moral superiority is without question and anyone who does not ascribe to this has no rights and we are nearing the point of the same having n…

I’m not following this logic. People are expressing themselves and others are responding as they see fit: agreement, condemnation, silence, etc. It sounds like a marketplace of ideas in a free society. No one is having their basic human rights taken away from them because someone else called them a bigot. If you’re uncomfortable with someone’s ideas making them a pariah, you’re describing a basic social dilemma that…

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Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#194

Post by mancerayder »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #135
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

You're confusing substance with allegiance. Your arguments are ad-hominems. Which means they're not actually disproving anything or attempting to, but trying to discredit people by their allegiances. That's what this downvoting is for. And the persecution comment sounds like a sort of activist or provocation on your part.

I'm speaking not as a conservative at all, but someone who values reason and calm argumentation.

Activism and agitation belong elsewhere.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#195

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

infogulch wrote: post #17

The US seems to have fallen into a game-theoretic local minimum where each party lets their crazy cousin go throw dumb rocks at the opposition because it seems to be the optimal way to drum up fanatic support for their side, all the while whistling as if in ignorance of what's going on. At least that's how it seemed to start, now it's just devolved to outright scat slinging that's co-opted our system of government in…

Its not this simple.

The internet has opened the disfunction of every institution and and elites (i say this word in the positive light, the George Washington/MLK/Rosa Parks meaning, not the karl rove/donna brazile kind of way, ie leaders with great responsibility, at a significany personal risk )

Institutions used to control the message fairly effectively, now they cant due to citizen journalism.

Its not republicans or démocrats. Its literally every institution of centralized power.

Thats why opinion polls rate so low for everything, congress, NYT, Fox & all networks, FBI, DoJ, etc.

The people at the top of these institutions have looted americans for their own benefit, and never really had the people as their top of mind concern.

(R)s and (D)s wont reform themselves, any more than institutions will let go of power.

You need to take power forecefully from them, unless you want someone to literally set them on fire.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#197

Post by wherewillitlead »

mushbino wrote: post #114
kshatrea wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not American and don't live there but have American friends. Most of them anecdotally were happy about the op-ed you mention - they probably aren't members of your political tribe. But then they don't subscribe to the NYT anyway. My point is that the GP is right, this is survival. They tried to be neutral by publishing an op-ed the other side probably liked. Didn't work and therefore it pushes them more into one…

Your American friends were happy about a racist senator saying they should send in the military to kill peaceful protesters? People protesting police violence?

If Taibbi is reporting accurately, that's not what he said, and the NYT even had to issue a correction to clarify that he didn't say that.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#198

Post by wherewillitlead »

gfodor wrote: post #42

Taibbi at this point should start a new news co. He, and to some degree, Glenn Greenwald, have been the only two members of the press who seem to be unable to see the emperor’s new clothes in the parades of the last several years.

Have you seen the news show "Rising"? They have been staking out this space for about a year now. Taibbi and Greenwald appear there regularly. This show is probably the most interesting new development in American political media. The hosts have jokingly described their philosophy as "let's hate each other less and elites more", and present as a mostly-friendly pair of left and right populists.

They were on Joe Rogan recently (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA9Tpf5Uuxs), so their audience will probably spike. I find that even when I don't agree with them, their smartness is usually a breath of fresh air from the fetid stupidities of the mainstream (both left and right) media. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts, and whether they will continue to be able to work together. Regardless of whether one agrees, they're managing to host a freer discussion for the time being.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#199

Post by CamperBob2 »

phaus wrote: post #190
danaris wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is exactly what I was talking about. You make a bunch of assumptions about peoples' political opinions that are incorrectly portraying them as centrists and supporters of nazis if they don't adopt your world view. "Us or them" is killing America. Lack of nuance and intelligent discourse is destroying us. There's more to the extreme left than "Everyone deserves to be treated equally and with dignity." Politics in…

[flagged]

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#200

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

mushbino wrote: post #150
eeereerews wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those excuses are built on a revolting moral equivalence of rioters and looters to peaceful, law-abiding protesters. A majority who seek to protest peacefully shouldn’t be confused with bands of miscreants.

Is ending centuries of systemic racism and extra-judicial killings at the hands of police worth some insured property damage? Tom Cotton doesn't think so.

It wasn't just property damage, and insurance isn't magic.

David Dorn, a black ex-police officer, and 14 other people died due to the unhandled looting.

If they would have sent National Guard in to protect storefronts those deaths would have never happened.

Those peaceful protesters deserve protection from the looters as well btw.

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