Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The American Press Is Destroying Itself

taibbi.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 618 posts

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#111

Post by guerrilla »

ideals wrote: post #59

Of the points the author is bringing up, all of them sound like comments that had they been made on here would be flagged and downvoted for 'flame bait' because they are purposefully incendiary. I don't disagree. Some of the reactions have been over the top but everyone is pretty wound up right now. I don't think the editor of nyt opinion should be fired for running the Tom Cotton piece, but some real reflection of i…

And the previous duplicate of this was flagged presumably for that exact reason.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#112

Post by VLM »

zaroth wrote: post #58
Tenoke wrote: post #40

Great article but it's so depressing that it starts with disinformation by claiming Trump said it is a great day for Floyd due to unemployment numbers (actually discussed completely separately in that speech). He said it's a great day due to increasing equality. [0] Twisting someone's words to make them look worse in a piece that rightly blames others for doing so is just sad. So I am asking again - Why do even the s…

There is a very long history of mainstream media taking a Trump quote, not just out of context, but actively rewriting it to mean the exact opposite of what he is saying. From Charlottesville to this, you can safely bet that anything reconciliatory that Trump says will be twisted into something divisive through intentionally misreporting what was said. This is the actual quote. The fact is that he made this remark du…

The truth doesn't matter all that matters is defeating Trump, even if it has to be done by outright lies.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#114

Post by mushbino »

kshatrea wrote: post #103
CydeWeys wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as a group that needs to survive, it's a working strategy. It's not working though. A lot of people canceled their NY Times subscriptions after the "Send in the troops" op-ed. Massively pissing off your customer base like that is not a winning move.

I am not American and don't live there but have American friends. Most of them anecdotally were happy about the op-ed you mention - they probably aren't members of your political tribe. But then they don't subscribe to the NYT anyway. My point is that the GP is right, this is survival. They tried to be neutral by publishing an op-ed the other side probably liked. Didn't work and therefore it pushes them more into one…

Your American friends were happy about a racist senator saying they should send in the military to kill peaceful protesters? People protesting police violence?

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#115

Post by there_the_and »

CydeWeys wrote: post #65
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #62

I don't think they are. I think they are optimizing for survival. Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. Few people would consume it (or even be capable of doing so), even fewer are ready to pay the real price of it. So they did the next best thing: they changed to please the market in a way that makes money. Grabbing a lot of attention, as cheaply as possible, so that you can sell it to the hi…

> But as a group that needs to survive, it's a working strategy. It's not working though. A lot of people canceled their NY Times subscriptions after the "Send in the troops" op-ed. Massively pissing off your customer base like that is not a winning move.

They reported at the beginning of May that subscriptions are at a high:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/business/media/new-york-t...

Scanning the google results for “nyt subscribers” I see them reporting 5 million in Feb and 4.7 million in Aug 2019, so it looks to me like subscriptions have been accelerating in recent months.

Can you please share the information you have regarding mass subscription cancellations due to this op-ed? I would like to see it.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#116

Post by humanrebar »

hcayless wrote: post #90
CydeWeys wrote: post #63

I agree with some of this, but I just personally can't bring myself to care about the firings of the editors responsible for "Send in the troops" and "Buildings matter, too". A lot of my friends unsubscribed from the NY Times for publishing Tom Cotton's pro-fascism op-ed. The NY Times had to respond to this. They are a business and their income matters. It's not so much an issue of freedom of thought in the newsroom,…

I’m interested that this is getting downvoted. It seems perfectly fair comment to me. Newspapers can not afford to massively alienate their readership, and both of these cases clearly did just that. That calls into question the editors’ fitness for their jobs.

I didn't downvote, but similar pushes for message purity are happening in center-right media, just focused on complete political support for Trump. I think it is ill advised to silence critics. My instincts are to apply the same principles to political movements that we apply to political leadership. There always needs to be a place to voice dissent not because dissent is always beneficial, but because the lack of civilly expressed dissent results in much worse outcomes.

Both the right and the left are recoiling from dialog. I struggle to see a beneficial future emerging from an utter lack of consensus seeking and civility. If the editorial boards are not responsible for their contributions to these trends, then their readerships certainly are.

That is, we are.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#117

Post by CydeWeys »

there_the_and wrote: post #115
CydeWeys wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as a group that needs to survive, it's a working strategy. It's not working though. A lot of people canceled their NY Times subscriptions after the "Send in the troops" op-ed. Massively pissing off your customer base like that is not a winning move.

They reported at the beginning of May that subscriptions are at a high: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/business/media/new-york-t... Scanning the google results for “nyt subscribers” I see them reporting 5 million in Feb and 4.7 million in Aug 2019, so it looks to me like subscriptions have been accelerating in recent months. Can you please share the information you have regarding mass subscription cancellations d…

The op-ed was published on June 3rd.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#118

Post by humanrebar »

infogulch wrote: post #17

The US seems to have fallen into a game-theoretic local minimum where each party lets their crazy cousin go throw dumb rocks at the opposition because it seems to be the optimal way to drum up fanatic support for their side, all the while whistling as if in ignorance of what's going on. At least that's how it seemed to start, now it's just devolved to outright scat slinging that's co-opted our system of government in…

You overestimate how powerful American political parties are. The leadership ride waves. They don't make them.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#119

Post by hedora »

scott_s wrote: post #92
remote_phone wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opinion pages are not objective. The news should be objective. If they aren’t objective then they should be clear about this otherwise people believe it as objective. That’s the whole point of news.

It is not possible for the news to be objective. Even the decision of what is news is a subjective process. If the news appears objective, that only means you share the perspective of the people reporting on and editing it.

That is a lazy argument. It’s possible for the news to strive to be objective.

Back when we had competition between independent news organizations in the US, the news was closer to being objective. Publications that frequently retracted major stories, or ran articles with flawed logic and sloppy conclusions lost market share.

These days, there’s basically no competition, and the major news outlets just spew transparent propaganda.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#120

Post by CydeWeys »

bsagdiyev wrote: post #109
CydeWeys wrote: post #63

I agree with some of this, but I just personally can't bring myself to care about the firings of the editors responsible for "Send in the troops" and "Buildings matter, too". A lot of my friends unsubscribed from the NY Times for publishing Tom Cotton's pro-fascism op-ed. The NY Times had to respond to this. They are a business and their income matters. It's not so much an issue of freedom of thought in the newsroom,…

So I don’t really disagree with the content of your comment, but I still take some sort of issue with the use of fascism lately. I see where the connection is made, but I still think that is a long way off from what was advocated. Even by definition of fascism and what it actually stands for. Having had family members “forcibly disappeared” during Franco’s dictatorship I feel this word is being used ... I’m not even…

We're on the road to fascism. If you wait until it's "solidly fascist" then it's too late to stop it via peaceful means. So yes, it's not yet nearly as bad as it has been in other countries throughout history. But we're potentially on a trajectory towards that right now, and it needs to be stopped. Calling it what it is is a necessary first step.

Calling for the military to come in and violently crush protests (as Trump and Cotton have done) is for sure a move out of the fascist playbook.

Post reply on HN