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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#851

Post by CydeWeys »

DenisM wrote: post #842
toofy wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Has the level of police violence over the years gotten worse, gotten better, or stayed roughly the same? I understand why some people’s initial instinct is to believe this is a new problem, but groups have been desperately trying to get people’s attention about police violence for decades. Rodney King was nearly 30 years ago. And people were crying for help long before that. I knew there was a problem before, but s…

You have avoided answering the question you have quoted. It’s an important question.

The point they're making is that the current level of police violence is still unacceptable, regardless of whether it may or may not have been better or worse in the past.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#852

Post by c22 »

wildmusings wrote: post #826
jakelazaroff wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I truly don't understand the problem here. Can you tell me what it is that makes these people dangerous and scary, but the similarly armed protestors who showed up at government buildings a month ago — or, frankly, the police — fine?

Because these people have claimed territory and held themselves out as challenging the sovereignty of the United States. So the implication is pretty clear, that the guns are there as a show of that sovereignty. Are they serious about using them? Who knows.

Challenging the authority of the police department is not anywhere close to "challenging the sovereignty of the United States". No new state is being proposed, no old state is being dissolved. The people (in whom the power of sovereignty resides in the United States) are merely promoting policy change. Do you think if the U.S. Army marched on the CHAZ that these people would fight them? Do you think there's any chance that they could win? Where is the challenge?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#853

Post by CydeWeys »

AnHonestComment wrote: post #686
dragonwriter wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Police are safer than cars, For whom and per...what? Encounter? Mile traveled with them? > The only violence I’ve seen from police that doesn’t seem like an anomaly is violence that protestors incited by starting a conflict with the police. That suggests to me that either your perception of provocation or of anomaly is skewed (or that “anomaly” is used in the software sense of “behavior out of line with spec” rathe…

Per arrest to one year of driving: you would have to be arrested ten times in a year for your risk from the police to match your risk driving a car that year. Per arrest for violent crime (where most of the deaths occur), blacks are safer than whites. I’ve been reviewing the footage from Seattle — and protestors started every instance of violence by first getting forceful with the cops. Show me any evidence that ther…

What does this comparison have to do with anything though? Traffic deaths are themselves dwarfed by deaths from cancer and heart disease. So what?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#854

Post by CydeWeys »

drevil-v2 wrote: post #375
pera wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The media coverage of it is WILD I live 7 blocks away from "the zone" and can confirm, I have never in my life seen anything alike in this regard. The scale of the misinformation being spread in social networks and news media reached a level I couldn't believe possible before. Seriously, it's beyond absurd. If anyone is interested, I have been taking some pictures of the ongoing protests (including a few of the zon…

Seattle police chief said on TV [1] that "Rapes, robberies and all sorts of violent acts have been occurring in the area and we're not able to get to [them]." Doesn’t sound very utopian [1] https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1271291958296604675?s=2...

One of the things you should be learning from these protests is that the police lie all the time, and are never held accountable for it.

Look at how flagrantly the police lied to cover up what they did to Breonna Taylor, or Freddie Gray. This is their standard MO: Lie and cover-up.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#855

Post by CydeWeys »

bowmessage wrote: post #629
freeone3000 wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't go to the park, because it's too crowded, because people are gathering there to enact change. I'm sorry, I simply disagree as to the role of public space in a free society -- them occupying the park is the LEAST objectionable thing about this.

How is occupying the park enacting change? I thought the meetings with the mayor were excellent, but via this avenue, all they are doing is changing the park. There's a whole city out there where cops still operate under the same laws they have for many years. Protesters should try and change _that_, imho.

That's exactly what the protesters are fighting for. Protests are almost by definition inconvenient to some people.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#856

Post by [deleted] »

c22 wrote: post #852
wildmusings wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because these people have claimed territory and held themselves out as challenging the sovereignty of the United States. So the implication is pretty clear, that the guns are there as a show of that sovereignty. Are they serious about using them? Who knows.

Challenging the authority of the police department is not anywhere close to "challenging the sovereignty of the United States". No new state is being proposed, no old state is being dissolved. The people (in whom the power of sovereignty resides in the United States) are merely promoting policy change. Do you think if the U.S. Army marched on the CHAZ that these people would fight them? Do you think there's any chanc…

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#857

Post by ChristianBundy »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #765
ChristianBundy wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of it like nuclear weapons: it'd be great if they didn't exist at all, but if they do exist and are stockpiled by people who want to hurt us, then the only responsible action is to arm ourselves in self-defense. In other words: > An unarmed people are slaves or are subject to slavery at any given moment. > -- Huey P Newton

That's MAD, right? Mutually Assured Destruction. Well, that is the logic of a species that has gone kookoo bonkers bannanas bongos mad and thinks that "let's all threaten each other with total anihilation" is "rational". Why is it so hard to agree to not destroy each other needlessly instead?

Again, I don't think that we should threaten each other with total annihilation, but if someone is threatening you and ignoring your requests that they stop threatening violence what other avenues do you have? Fight or flight.

If given the option to run away, you should absolutely do so -- but that shouldn't stop you from learning self-defense in case the 'flight' option isn't available.

We shouldn't have guns, but I don't think that we should disarm ourselves unless everyone else agrees to disarm themselves as well.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#858

Post by dang »

dang wrote: post #77

All: this story is here because it's an interesting phenomenon, a la https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . Before commenting, please make sure you're up to date on those rules and post in the intended spirit (curiosity and conversation) not the opposite one (ideology and battle).

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place, so that it can be collapsed and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of the thread.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#859

Post by dang »

DocEasyE wrote: post #367
dang wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place, so that it can be collapsed and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of the thread.

this is not an interesting phenomenon, this has happened many times and still these places exist, whats not interesting is the civilians got caught in these dummies crossfire.

I think it's interesting in the context of current events.

Nothing interests everybody. If one story doesn't interest you, there are plenty of others to read here, and if you run out, the 'past' link in the top bar will take you to many threads you missed. Some of those will surely be interesting.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#860

Post by dang »

lordlic wrote: post #809
dang wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place, so that it can be collapsed and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of the thread.

That sentiment makes me pretty uncomfortable given the proximity of this article's topic to wider ongoing events. Like we should all pour glasses of single malt and sit around a table in our smoking jackets having a languorous discussion. These issues are too important, and the horror and shock and outrage are too fresh, to react to nauseating views by politely sipping your whisky instead of throwing it in their face…

I understand the feeling, but what good does throwing it in their face do?
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