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The American Press Is Destroying Itself

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Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#141

Post by [deleted] »

ajmurmann wrote: post #78
humanrebar wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be hard to argue that a view is universally repugnant when it is espoused by an elected official and there is at least a significant minority of voters polling in support of the view. Given those criteria, we should argue that outright racist or sexist views are both unacceptable and not universally repugnant. I'm still supportive of editors who refuse to publish in those cases. So I'm just quibbling with th…

I wonder how much division in the country plays into this. I keep hearing references to there being at least two countries within the US. Is this maybe the outcome of using the sphere model from the Vox article higher up and applying it only within the "blue country"?

[deleted]

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#142

Post by hedora »

remote_phone wrote: post #82

This is the most important story in the last 4 years. The press has gone wild. They think they have a moral duty to bring down Trump instead of reporting the news. Because of this they distort headlines and flat out lie in many instances. I no longer trust the media. I hate Trump as well, but you don’t do it through lies and distortion. You do it by presenting the truth. Reporters have crossed the line in the last se…

Trump is part of a long-term movement to dismantle the press.

Remember when Dan Rather was fired? It was over a story that had been carefully researched, both with written evidence, and with multiple recorded interviews with corroborating eye witnesses.

The excuse for firing him was that out of the 1000’s of documents they’d gathered, a few were forgeries. The reality was that he criticized W within a few years of 9/11, and the press decided that was off limits. We ended up fighting a useless war because no one was allowed to question the executive branch. That led to untold human suffering, and eventually the rise of ISIS, etc.

Anyway, by converting to a propaganda engine dedicated to ousting Trump, the liberal press is actually helping dismantle our democracy. They may as well be endorsing him for a third term in office.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#143

Post by mushbino »

hedora wrote: post #124
claudeganon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of white American would’ve supported siccing the police and military on the civil rights movement in the 60s. That doesn’t mean that newspapers should’ve advocated they do so. The same holds true here. Ethics are not equivalent to populism.

The newspapers in the 60’s didn’t pretend that 100% of the population was behind the civil rights movement. When racist politicians spoke, they got their platform. People could read, and decide for themselves. If an elected official wants to publish a racist diatribe, the press should circulate it as widely as possible. Informed voters make for a stronger democracy. Burying the editorial because it would offend their…

Is there a study or data that you could link to showing that frequently spreading white nationalist propaganda as widely and frequently as possible makes for better voters?

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#144

Post by vvpan »

CydeWeys wrote: post #63

I agree with some of this, but I just personally can't bring myself to care about the firings of the editors responsible for "Send in the troops" and "Buildings matter, too". A lot of my friends unsubscribed from the NY Times for publishing Tom Cotton's pro-fascism op-ed. The NY Times had to respond to this. They are a business and their income matters. It's not so much an issue of freedom of thought in the newsroom,…

I am not certain why NYT published those articles but I am glad they did. I see it as exposing the dirt and muck-raking. I think it's up to NYT readers to separate what is a real ideological call to arms and what is giving bastards like Tom Cotton a chance to discredit themselves infront of the whole country.

Not my favorite new institution mostly because their reporting has become too linear and predictable. The articles added a nice twist that increased my trust in NYT.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#145

Post by born_a_skeptic »

gfodor wrote: post #137
born_a_skeptic wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not Tucker Carlson? Just for the record, I subscribe to The Intercept and am a fan of Glenn Greenwald.

Tucker is partisan, and hence corrupted, so regardless of how wrong or right he is on any given issue he isn't someone who could step into the role of a widely-trusted journalist. Taibbi could.

That's a fair point.

I will say that he isn't afraid of calling out the BS on the right.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#146

Post by humanrebar »

hobs wrote: post #130
Shivetya wrote: post #91

What I find most reprehensible about this whole situation is that more and more members of the left regulate political discourse, no make that any discourse, by defining any opposing view as illegitimate, bigoted, and now violence. As in, they are taking the position that their moral superiority is without question and anyone who does not ascribe to this has no rights and we are nearing the point of the same having n…

So, our president literally said to use violence against protestors protesting bigotry. When you find yourself being called a bigot and white supremacist repeatedly, its probably not "the left" that's the problem.

The mirror image of the problem on the left is exactly what you describe on the right. One doesn't have to be correct for the other to be incorrect.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#147

Post by ashtonkem »

JPKab wrote: post #15
ashtonkem wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the proposition of lionizing someone because they fight the “groupthink”, however you define that, quite an odd thing to do. Thinking like that will occasionally result in you supporting absolute cranks, because the heuristic you’re using is unrelated to actual correctness or other useful characteristics. Seek out people who seek to be right and back up their arguments consistently with logic and data, not peo…

Yeah I didn't say any of that in my comment. Thank you for inferring that and downvoting it. You made the assumption that the people that dislike him are people I dislike. And I doubt you read the article. Basically if I don't write a full paragraph describing in essay like detail, I have to deal with people like you sitting there inferring way too much from a single statement. Awesome. I wouldn't support somebody wh…

If you’re going to be outraged that someone inferred something about your post, you can’t turn around and make a series of wild assumptions about my actions and beliefs; it’s inconsistent.

> And I doubt you read the article

> Let’s be honest you don’t like this article do you?

Correct the inference, don’t turn around and attack me for it.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#149

Post by [deleted] »

remote_phone wrote: post #82

This is the most important story in the last 4 years. The press has gone wild. They think they have a moral duty to bring down Trump instead of reporting the news. Because of this they distort headlines and flat out lie in many instances. I no longer trust the media. I hate Trump as well, but you don’t do it through lies and distortion. You do it by presenting the truth. Reporters have crossed the line in the last se…

[deleted]

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#150

Post by mushbino »

eeereerews wrote: post #138
mushbino wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your American friends were happy about a racist senator saying they should send in the military to kill peaceful protesters? People protesting police violence?

> Those excuses are built on a revolting moral equivalence of rioters and looters to peaceful, law-abiding protesters. A majority who seek to protest peacefully shouldn’t be confused with bands of miscreants.

Is ending centuries of systemic racism and extra-judicial killings at the hands of police worth some insured property damage? Tom Cotton doesn't think so.
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