271–280 of 397 posts
Piffle! At least they only had to suspend an account! Imagine the outrage if Zoom had been complicit in adding backdoors, or conducting surveillance at the implicit or explicit demands of the state. (I think Snowden even once claimed Apple’s iOS has an NSA backdoor?)
Does anyone know if Zoom is built on any open source video streaming tech? I’m have a hard time believing their product isn’t going to meet massive amounts of competition very soon. Edit: After some Googling - https://webrtchacks.com/zoom-avoids-using-webrtc/
> I’m have a hard time believing their product isn’t going to meet massive amounts of competition very soon. There have been several vendors doing this for years. Google Hangouts, Skype, BlueJeans, Webex. Zoom just did it better. Except for security; Zoom doesn't understand security.
Zoom doesn't seem to have much of a moat, right? Most users aren't even logged in.
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Most US companies that I am familiar with apply US laws to all their users, at least to some extent. For example, I don't think that YouTube will allow you to post a blatantly copyright-infringing video, even if your account declares a country that doesn't enforce US copyright laws. Similarly, I suspect that Facebook would take down a page for a terrorist group, without needing permission from the country they are ba…
US companies may enforce US law but they're not hiding the fact that they're US companies. Zoom claimed not to be a Chinese company while enforcing Chinese law for US users.
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I think it is fair to say that the laws in the US are objectively better than in China. The US does not put hundreds of thousands of people in camps because of their religion, or heavily censor the internet, or kill hundreds or thousands of civilians to suppress pro-democracy protests.
The US DOES imprison hundreds of thousands of people who do not agree with its political position, and more to the point the USA has been the #1 violator of human rights in the last two decades, a fact that is conveniently forgotten whenever Americans decide that China is their latest bad-guy. Or, did you forget the 4 million innocent people whose lives were lost in America's illegal wars?
What exactly are you getting at?
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Also, as absolutely reprehensible Apple's similar actions are, Zoom canceled _a US based account_ because of a Chinese request. It's one thing to be all "we comply with local laws", and another to enforce one country's geopolitical aspirations across international borders. Like, I think companies should take a stand and both aren't acceptable, but Zoom takes new, additional steps here.
Most US companies that I am familiar with apply US laws to all their users, at least to some extent. For example, I don't think that YouTube will allow you to post a blatantly copyright-infringing video, even if your account declares a country that doesn't enforce US copyright laws. Similarly, I suspect that Facebook would take down a page for a terrorist group, without needing permission from the country they are ba…
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> The USA suffers from some of what it accuses the PRC - it is still not the PRC. > The US isn’t the moral beacon it was billed to be. Agreed. I think one difference being that Citizens can, with great personal peril to their own safety and well being, use the Right to assemble and protest to effect change to address systemic corruption. As an activist with a background in protests in various demos myself, I just won…
People at tiannamem square protested. Tanks turned up and refused to run them over People in nyc protests, police officers ran them over Maybe China is worse than the US, but there doesn’t seem to be as much in it as there was 30 years ago.
> On June 4, 1989, however, Chinese troops and security police stormed through Tiananmen Square, firing indiscriminately into the crowds of protesters. Turmoil ensued, as tens of thousands of the young students tried to escape the rampaging Chinese forces. Other protesters fought back, stoning the attacking troops and overturning and setting fire to military vehicles. Reporters and Western diplomats on the scene estimated that at least 300, and perhaps thousands, of the protesters had been killed and as many as 10,000 were arrested.
> The savagery of the Chinese government’s attack shocked both its allies and Cold War enemies. Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev declared that he was saddened by the events in China. He said he hoped that the government would adopt his own domestic reform program and begin to democratize the Chinese political system.
In two weeks of protests around the country, 19 people are dead: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/06/08/14-days.... Three were possibly shot by the police, under circumstances where the allegation is they opened fire first. Two police officers are dead as a result of drive-by shootings.
The contrast with China couldn't be starker. Here we have protests that involved burning down police stations, and a heavily-armed country where gangs have used the protests as pre-texts for shootings. And we've had a handful of officer-involved deaths. In China, by contrast, police killed hundreds of people at a peaceful protest involving a disarmed population.
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I think it is fair to say that the laws in the US are objectively better than in China. The US does not put hundreds of thousands of people in camps because of their religion, or heavily censor the internet, or kill hundreds or thousands of civilians to suppress pro-democracy protests.
> The US does not put hundreds of thousands of people in camps because of their religion And yet still has the highest incarceration rates on Earth by far, vast majority of whom are black and haven't actually been convicted of a crime. Feel free to justify that however you want. The way I see it is that either: the laws/justice system aren't better at all, law enforcement is magically more efficient than the rest of…
This is a straightforward lie.
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And the USA did allow violence against democratic organizers last week. But those same organizers weren't shipped to Guantanamo for indefinite periods of time for "reeducation." The USA suffers from some of what it accuses the PRC - it is still not the PRC.
Nobody is going to disagree that the US treats its citizens better, but we're talking about country's foreign influence here. China doesn't cripple the economy or bomb other countries they disagree with.
Is that a bad thing if we're trying to promulgate our values?
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The US DOES imprison hundreds of thousands of people who do not agree with its political position, and more to the point the USA has been the #1 violator of human rights in the last two decades, a fact that is conveniently forgotten whenever Americans decide that China is their latest bad-guy. Or, did you forget the 4 million innocent people whose lives were lost in America's illegal wars?
> The US DOES imprison hundreds of thousands of people who do not agree with its political position, and more to the point the USA has been the #1 violator of human rights in the last two decades, a fact that is conveniently forgotten whenever Americans decide that China is their latest bad-guy. What exactly are you getting at?
None-stop illegal wars against innocent people. Drone assassinations. Secret wars hidden from its citizens under threat of imprisonment for anyone who dares to look for themselves.
Highest proportion of its population in prison of any modern state, mostly for victimless crimes.
America is not the shining city on the hill its citizens think it is. Rather, it only thinks it is.
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That sounds nice in theory, but it doesn’t work that way in practice. You just end up corrupting your own principles in the end. I think the best approach would be to try to support users by making it easier for them to get access in spite of the great firewall.
> That sounds nice in theory, but it doesn’t work that way in practice. You just end up corrupting your own principles in the end. Maybe. But if you don't do it, a Chinese company will just clone your product, and they will be substantially more beholden to the Chinese government than you.