Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#821

Post by jatone » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:08 PM UTC

49531 wrote: post #596

motohagiography wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a source I'd be willing to provide, especially given such lists are precisely what political organizers avoid sharing. However, as an exercise, you can see the make up of the civil society organizations and businesses who provide funding and support for social causes, and neither of these are made up of the uneducated or working poor.

My only experience with social causes is doing labor organizing in Seattle, but that experience has been almost exclusively organized and run by uneducated working poor. My point being that from what it looks like, there probably isn't a list of people organizing the CHAZ because it's mostly a spontaneous reaction to the current circumstances. They're explicitly non-hierarchical, and if they look anything like the ci…

You're probably not familiar with Seattle.... there is a base of people there who are capable of this. there has been ongoing conflict between the local populace and the SPD. for over a year. probably longer, but a 1-2 years ago is when it popped up on my radar.

this is hardly spontaneous, seems more like they just told the police to fuck off.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#822

Post by numpad0 » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:11 PM UTC

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #690

umvi wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless, full auto is misleadingly portrayed in media as being orders of magnitude more deadly than semi auto, hard to change that (for example[0]). Nevermind handguns kill more than all other gun types combined, it's the "military" style ones that politicians and media focus on because they look scary (again, also disregarding the fact that a functionally equivalent semi-auto hunting rifle has exactly the same de…

>a functionally equivalent semi-auto hunting rifle has exactly the same destructive power). I'd strongly argue against this point. Most hunting rifles have 5 round mags (legal limit for hunting in a lot of places). They won't accept 30 round mags. They're also chambered in more powerful calibers which have much more recoil. An active shooter with his dad's hunting rifle is much less dangerous than the same shooter wi…

Gew98 was the Nazi’s frontline infantry rifle. 8mm Mauser, .30-06, 7.62mm NATO, those are/were proper military rifle cartridges, just obsolete.

It’s not like WWII rifles had wooden furnitures as luxury items.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#823

Post by madengr » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:15 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #660

mcv wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think over the past few decades, there's been a movement towards increasingly aggressive use of some police weapons. Using tear gas to disperse a crowd is also needlessly aggressive. When I was a kid, Dutch police used water for that. And only when it was an actual riot. I've seen videos of police tasering someone who wasn't the least bit violent, but simply uncooperative. That's not what tasers are for. But if som…

Police used tear gas on my college campus after we were celebrating winning the national football championship. If the army did that, it would be a war crime.

I’m sure there is more to the story than “celebrating”.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#824

Post by madengr » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

partiallypro wrote: post #783

conroy wrote: post #84

A friend lives in Seattle and texted me today about his visit last night: > I was there last night and it's such a cool pseudo utopian place > The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground > There are speakers, musicians, art walls. I took a group pic for a bunch of black guys las…

Isn't it also possible that your friend is experiencing confirmation bias because they agree with CHAZ? It wasn't reported until much later but during the Occupy movement, rapes skyrocketed around and among the encampments. I have little doubt that there are a lot of things that are going unreported at the moment which will eventually come to light when people don't feel coerced or intimidated by the community (and t…

Assuming you can believe the SPD, the rape calls are already coming in.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#825

Post by krzyk » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #819

krzyk wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use of force by police in those protests results in more protests. So the simplest answer is actually: protesters benefit from police using force. (because they'll get more protesters, more media coverage etc.)

People in large groups typically don't exhibit intelligent coordinated behavior taking advantage of second order effects without training and coordination. Soldiers in battle require training to maintain formation in violent circumstances even though that's in their advantage as a group. It sounds like you may have a blind spot based on a preconceived notion here.

Yes, I get that, but protests are rarely spontaneously created, they are organized by someone or some group of people.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#826

Post by wildmusings » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #392

thu2111 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then there's also this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaQyClgU4AEJnWf?format=jpg&name=... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaQyCmMUEAEn_1o?format=jpg&name=... I've not before seen a summer street festival where armed militias wearing bulletproof vests patrol the streets.

I truly don't understand the problem here. Can you tell me what it is that makes these people dangerous and scary, but the similarly armed protestors who showed up at government buildings a month ago — or, frankly, the police — fine?

Because these people have claimed territory and held themselves out as challenging the sovereignty of the United States. So the implication is pretty clear, that the guns are there as a show of that sovereignty. Are they serious about using them? Who knows.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#827

Post by madengr » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

jatone wrote: post #810

downerending wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Antifa is decidedly Anti-Fascist I have not noticed this. They seem like a hateful mob to me. Or worse. I'll be happy enough if the Feds just roll them up.

then you really havent been paying attention. most of their activities are doxxing white supremacists. Seattle is a special snowflake because their PD is actively white supremacist and they regularly have out of town white supremacists harassing the local populace. I'm happy their doing their thing when government fails so hard at its job.

I suppose the police chief is a white supremacist in black face, as a black female.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#828

Post by idownvoted » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

jpatt wrote: post #793

idownvoted wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know those "summer festivals" from Europe. Especially the "free spech"-debates and their "diversity" of opinion. I just imagine how it must feel living there for years and not being 100%-OK with your neighbourhood becoming a "summer street fair".

This section of town is normally the busiest part of the Seattle nightlife. They didn't just turn some random residential block into Coachella. It's right by where the Capitol Hill block party is run, legally and with the city's blessing, every year. That's a major corporate event with _significantly_ more powerful sound systems.

I'm sorry for my sarcasm not coming through ;-)

I was referring to the "block party" feeling of European "autonomous zones", i.e. in variaous European cities like Hamburg, Berlin, Kopenhagen, Barcelona, …, where Antifa/Anarchists/Far-Left "took over" an area/building, with city-officials telling the police to back-off, which created "never ending block-parties".

Growing up there, seeing that it was always the same no matter which city or country, was the best vaccine against their school of thought.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#829

Post by madengr » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:33 PM UTC

lioeters wrote: post #775

Semaphor wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct link: https://capitolhillautonomous.zone/img/23.jpg

Wow, that's grown up and filled in quite a bit since last I saw the map. They seem ready for a longer haul. Now that they have our attention, I wish them the best in making their voices heard. So this is what democracy looks like.

Do the property owners have a say in this democracy?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#830

Post by beerandt » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:52 PM UTC

gray_-_wolf wrote: post #805

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes these people dangerous and scary is that they're carrying dangerous and scary weapons. The flak jackets and face masks aren't making it any less scary either. Personally, I'm not afraid of the police, of protesters, of armed militias, etc. I'm afraid of people with guns. Why does anyone carry a gun, unless they intend to use it, once some set of conditions obtain? I don't want to be around people like that…

> Why does anyone carry a gun, unless they intend to use it Yes, I carry a gun because I intend to use it. In self-defense, if ever necessary. What is wrong with wanting to protect my own life?

Deterrence also counts. You don't need to pull the trigger on order to use a gun.