Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers • Hacker News Board

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#231

Post by tonyedgecombe » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 8:26 AM UTC

hansvm wrote: post #138

electricviolet wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this only works if you're releasing a new version every subscription period -- and in that case, it's equivalent to upgrade pricing.

If the developer isn't providing upgrades then they shouldn't keep getting paid for a product someone already bought. If the argument is that developers need _regular_ pay days then we have dedicated financial instruments for smoothing an irregular cash flow. In any case, subscriptions aren't directly equivalent to upgrade pricing even when an upgrade is provided every subscription period because in an upgrade pricin…

If the argument is that developers need _regular_ pay days then we have dedicated financial instruments for smoothing an irregular cash flow.

I think that ignores how little most developers make in the app store. They aren't rolling in money, most are just trying to figure out a way to eke out a living.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#232

Post by tonyedgecombe » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 8:28 AM UTC

wilshipley wrote: post #207

danielrhodes wrote: post #34

I was curious about the arguments for not including upgrade pricing on the App Store. Apple maintains that upgrade pricing is a relic of shrink wrapped software and subscriptions are better. I lean softly towards Apple on this one. A few reasons I can think of for why subscriptions are preferred over upgrade pricing: - The app developer can keep making money over a longer period of time. - Generally means somebody ca…

I responded to some of these in a different response, I’ll edit it a bit here, but my points are the same: The subscription model fails in a lot of ways, for everyone. For example, my next app is an interior design / home control app. How would the customer feel if they stopped paying and didn’t have access to their house any more? Most people would be pissed. I don’t want to hold my customers’ data for ransom and cu…

I don’t want to hold my customers’ data for ransom and cut them off if they stop paying me my extortion money.

You don't have to, you could make it readonly when the subscription expires.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#233

Post by icebraining » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 8:45 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #164

jennyyang wrote: post #70

The only way we effect change is by ORGANIZING. Right now, Apple can do whatever they want because they pick us off one by one, and ignore us. Google does exactly the same thing. If we organize as a large enough group, they have to listen. I firmly believe what Apple does is anti-competitive and they need to be regulated firmly by the government. I also think Google and Facebook need to be firmly regulated by the gov…

Thought experiment: Let’s day that Apple banned an app by both Black Lives Matter and “Focus on the Family” and they both complained about it to the government. Which one do you think the government would be more likely to force Apple to carry? It continues to amaze me that anyone wants the sane government more involved in technology whose leader wants to “shut down Twitter” and wants all of the data it can get to sp…

In English, the government doesn't necessarily mean the executive. If Congress passed a law stating how platforms must treat the developers, them one could sue Apple to enforce it.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#234

Post by unnouinceput » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 8:50 AM UTC

musicale wrote: post #93

unnouinceput wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I do the same. When enough of us will do then they'll listen, but by then will be too late. Until then this crap will continue.

I assume you're rocking a GNU/Linux smartphone then? ;-) Or did you just go for a feature phone, or a vintage Blackberry/webOS/Windows/Firefox phone? (rip)

Actually I don't have a smartphone at all. And for those rare occasions where I need WhatsApp or smartphone only apps, I use an Android emulator. And yeah, I understood your question is a sarcasm, don't worry, was not lost on me.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#235

Post by pjbster » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:08 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #220

pjbster wrote: post #197

I have been thinking about an alternative pricing model but it only works for content creation software. It would be enabled by an OpenPGP library which handles signing of files and micropayments. What if the app itself was free but it charged a small fee the first time a new file was saved? The file format doesn't have to be proprietary - a simple chunk of metadata should be able to identify the creator and the file…

How do you define "new file"? Why don't I put all my data into various copies of the same original file?

A "new" file is simply one which doesn't contain the licensee's signature.

Yes, there would be ways to game this approach by minimising the number of files saved but the price per new save could be set sufficiently low to make the inconvenience too uneconomical. And there might be users who need to create thousands of new files over the course of a year and who might be better served by a subscription model or a pricing cap.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#236

Post by on_and_off » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:13 AM UTC

wilshipley wrote: post #206

on_and_off wrote: post #157

Strongly agree with most of the points, but not all. Disagreements : - App updates. I think that the subscription model would be pretty good for apps actually if you could have a micro transaction system. Great quality apps are constantly maintained and often have recurring costs (API, servers, etc). Selling apps for a one time fee does not fit that well in this model. A nominal fee for app updates kinda solves part…

The subscription model fails in a lot of ways, for everyone. For example, my next app is an interior design / home control app. How would the customer feel if they stopped paying and didn’t have access to their house any more? Most people would be pissed. I don’t want to hold my customers’ data for ransom and cut them off if they stop paying me my extortion money. I’m pretty sure we can do micro-subscription already…

> for everyone / my next app is an interior design / home control app.

That's a good point but really not "for everyone". Agreed that for a one shot app like this, pay once is the model that works. Although one could argue that you still held the customer data captive as soon as they get a new phone and the app is no longer compatible.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#237

Post by inapis » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:16 AM UTC

musicale wrote: post #84

slimsag wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even $0.99 is "expensive" for most people these days In my experience, this is not really true - most people (including myself) just cannot find these apps and instead see only subscription ones which seems to be the new trend. The last 7 apps I downloaded on iOS wanted a $5-10/mo monthly subscription, and I literally _cannot_ purchase the app. And I'm talking about really basic zero-infrastructure apps: - 2 transc…

> most people (including myself) just cannot find these apps and instead see only subscription ones which seems to be the new trend. Yes!! The App Store search function is useless. I want affordable paid apps without ads, subscriptions, or IAPs.

This really kills discovery. Seeing an upfront price without the ability to trial the app really dissuades the user. On top of it, refunds are tedious to obtain and you can do it only so many times.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#238

Post by zadokshi » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:19 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #166

zadokshi wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have laws for this. Look up what “anti trust” is. The real question you should be asking is “why are anti trust rules not functioning properly” or why aren’t they being applied for this generation?

True. Why isn’t anti trust going after a company that is less than 50% of the market.....

Not sure why they would need to have more than 50% to be facing anti-trust issues, but it doesn't matter, Apple is already at 50% of the market.

https://www.investopedia.com/news/apple-global-smartphone-ma...

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#239

Post by duncanawoods » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:21 AM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #87

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple exists to make money, first and foremost. Don't forget that.

Not like this they don’t. Traditionally they hit you pocket upfront then left you alone. Maybe it’s a minority that still want this, I definitely do.

The level of control they maintain over the devices after you have paid means I don't feel I am left alone. I feel I only have the rights of renter not an owner.

They do eventually use this power to force you to buy a new house. They use it to mark perfectly capable devices as obsolete e.g. why is a MPB i7/retina/ssd with discrete graphics now being marked as obsolete? Why is an iPad4 not allowed ad blocking with no chance to install an alternative open OS?

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#240

Post by MintelIE » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:29 AM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #140

MintelIE wrote: post #20

I have simply stopped buying "apps" even though I am still an iOS user. Quite a few of my purchases have just disappeared over time. I moved to a newer device and they couldn't be installed. I'm not happy with Apple and I got rid of my modern Macs (still have 1/2 dozen SE/30s) completely, now I use Debian or OpenBSD. Apple is extremely tight lipped on what they're doing and where they're going, they will support and…

> and now moving to Swift seems like a message that all my work in Objective C will be thrown away by Apple Totally. Cocoa, Objective C, OpenGL, etc, are all going to die some day and Apple will announce it a year or two in advance like they usually do with major breaking stuff. Any serious company would announce these EOL 4-5 years in advance. With Apple the only safe strategy is to keep investing dev time to update…

I think we are meant to divine Apple’s plan from clues. Much of the Unix side of OS X or whatever it’s called now is getting pretty old, much apparently unchanged from years ago. So my guess is this stuff is going away sooner than later. They finally admitted that OpenGL is being deprecated but in retrospect we should have known this by 2010 at the absolute latest.

Since I no longer use OS X and haven’t installed the current or past few versions I couldn’t tell you what is being poorly maintained or ignored but my guess is a more familiar person could guess what Tim’s abandoning next with some scrutiny and a handful of yarrow stalks.