Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows • Hacker News Board

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#561

Post by chrisjarvis » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:18 PM UTC

troughway wrote: post #547

chrisjarvis wrote: post #503

A lot commenters here are blaming the sexual revolution for this trend, and I don't think that's the case (and its obviously a good thing women have more autonomy). I look at the men I'm surrounded by in my life, generally intelligent people who are financially comfortable in their mid or late 20s and think to myself, "I wouldn't fuck any of these losers, either." The men of my generation are absolutely consumed by t…

I agree with you here, but there are a number of other posts in this thread that are basically saying to "pull yourself up by the bootstraps", which we know works oh-so-well for those who are in poverty.

ya that's a good point that I didn't even realize, my messaging was more geared towards people who are in no danger of starving/poverty but who still live unhealthy, unfulfilling lives. I didn't even stop to think that there are people who don't have the ability to lives of excess, let alone needing to actively work on not living this way.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#562

Post by aianus » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:19 PM UTC

thanhhaimai wrote: post #245

cambalache wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> believe many of these men will eventually find someone once enough of the women who are now rejecting them face biological realities and are forced to settle if they want to have children. Who wants to be last choice? Maybe many of these men will wise up and marry a foreign girl(despite the usual shaming) or just hire sexual workers.

The assumption that a "foreign girl" is easier to get is both offensive and wrong. Given the ratio of men and women in Asian culture for example, it's a much crowder competition space. That's even more true considering the fact that a large percentage of those Asian women in the US are either highly educated, or from wealthy families that sent them study abroad. They look for partners who are equally educated/success…

> a large percentage of those Asian women in the US...

I think he literally means foreign. Like not in the US.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#563

Post by cortesoft » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:23 PM UTC

doc_gunthrop wrote: post #433

cortesoft wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're premise is based on a fallacy... that there is a strict ordering of men, and women all have the same order. A marriage is about finding a person who fits with you, and you can build a life together. That is not the same person for everyone. My best partner is not the same as your best partner.

I never said there was a strict ordering of men. But there are characteristics that will make one man more desirable than another (e.g. good looks, height, wealth, social status, intelligence, etc.). How these factors rank may vary depending on the woman. You say that "a marriage is about finding a person who fits with you, and you can build a life together". So take the viewpoint from a pragmatic woman's perspective…

First, wouldn't everything you said about men also apply to women? How is it different?

Second, there are a lot of other traits that aren't inherently good or bad; things like "do you like going out on the weekends or staying in" and "does your communication style work with mine?" and "are the things you are good at complimentary to the things I am good at?"

My best friend and his wife get along great, but both my wife and I can't imagine living our lives like they do. I am sure they feel the same about us.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#564

Post by deathgrips » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:23 PM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #517

aianus wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's really bad if you’re fat, disabled, or even just socially awkward Isn't it easier to hide these things on a Tinder profile than in a nightclub?

Nightclubs also suck; they’re the meatspace version of Tinder. Go out and do things during the day, be an interesting person and you will meet interesting people. Even if you don’t, you’ll at least have a good time.

This is true! It does take up a lot of time. If you are a decent looking, interesting guy and want to get dates, take up dancing and go to a lot of dances. I recently stopped going dancing because I got too busy with more important stuff.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#565

Post by cortesoft » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:25 PM UTC

eloisius wrote: post #421

cortesoft wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're premise is based on a fallacy... that there is a strict ordering of men, and women all have the same order. A marriage is about finding a person who fits with you, and you can build a life together. That is not the same person for everyone. My best partner is not the same as your best partner.

Your premise omits the possibility that there is correlation among the diverse orderings that women apply to men. Or even barring that, that they don't converge to an aggregate ordering which is what GP is explaining that men experience.

Some traits will be clearly desirable, but so many aren't. Introvert/extrovert, opinions on how to raise kids, family goals, what sort of place you like to live (rural/urban), political views, conversation style, etc. Those are going to vary greatly amongst people.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#566

Post by cortesoft » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:28 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #395

Jommi wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Cant reliability be a desirable attribute?

It can. But is reliability really the #1 attribute for people out there? Most people want a partner who excites them and who makes them happy. If they're unreliable then that can be a problem but usually a very desirable person has reliability in addition to everything else. When you're settling - you're usually settling for someone who is at least reliable but isn't very exciting.

After dating lots of people, one of the major factors in what made me decide to build a life with my wife was that I could count on her to be a reliable partner. That is soooo huge when choosing someone you are going to build a family with. It is way more important than any sort of animal sexual attraction.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#567

Post by deathgrips » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:28 PM UTC

kylebyproxy wrote: post #444

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men don't receive a constant barrage of sexual misconduct. Where did you get this idea? There's countless data and evidence showing instutionalozed sexual discrimination from men against women. If you want an enlighting read as it pertains to tech, read Brotopia. Or read about how Uber only bought leather jackets for it's men SREs and explicitly chose to not buy the same jacket for their women SREs. Or simply ask any…

> Or simply ask any woman about an instance where a man pressured her for some sexual act. Or made them feel unsafe or uncomfortable. Or where a male boss of theirs made sexually discriminatory or otherwise hostile remarks against them in a workplace (dismissing a woman's perspective on a topic definitely counts here). As a male who has been subjected to all of these and more (from both male and female perpetrators),…

I'm sorry to hear about that. I hope you got the support you deserve.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#568

Post by klipt » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:33 PM UTC

fdsgnr0g90n0fw wrote: post #448

enriquto wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sounds like mental health problems are even more rampant than we guessed. We should probably handle that. Other than generalized chemical castration I don't see how you could eliminate the "problem" of most of the male population unfulfilled sex drive. For all its problems and unfairness, patriarchal society provides an answer to that problem, if an ugly one.

At the risk of sounding cold... anything that causes the mortality rate of men in this high risk category to rise significantly would likely reduce the overall problem. For example, making the choice of suicide readily available for young men that face poo life prospects, and the choice of ending your own life for the better of society a virtue, perhaps even heroic. Whether enough people would see such a thing as acc…

Why would anyone want to raise a son in a society like that?

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#569

Post by deathgrips » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:33 PM UTC

doorstar wrote: post #405

This is easily the most depressing thread I've ever encountered on HN. Women aren't sleeping with men because we know this is what you all really think of us. I'm not interested in someone with such levels of disdain for my entire gender.

Does this mean that women don't date men with misogynistic beliefs or habits?

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#570

Post by mettamage » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:35 PM UTC

starpilot wrote: post #559

mettamage wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seeing a trend in the replies here of the parent that might show an implicit bias towards a particular feeling of powerlessness in getting sex + companionship. If this is you, then know the following: in most cases, one is able to get an abundance of intimacy [1]. I know this because this was one of my life goals in my mid teens to early twenties. It was my first big achievement in life, for me anyway, I worked h…

> My target group of women almost never praise me for my physical features but my personality instead. Women do this in general because mentioning physical attractiveness among women is taboo. This is why a personality-focused, zero pictures version of Tinder would utterly fail. Do you think women would leap to such an app, finally being able to judge people by their wit and conversation skills and empathy? Of course…

> Height gives an enormous advantage

That's why I mentioned Sean Stephenson.

> than a 5'6" Indian guy.

I know a pretty small Indian/Surinamese guy (used to be a Dutch colony). Surinam is a bit of a melting pot, FYI but his family line has remained relatively purely Indian. In all fairness, he's good looking. What he also has: the best accent and voice tonality I've ever heard. He says it's his biggest strength and most of that is totally teachable. He taught the best Dutch accent I've ever heard entirely himself and he lowered his voice.

So yea, I do have those advantages, but they are overcomeable. It's simply a lot harder. Also, you don't need to rise to the top. One needs to rise to a level that they feel content with, and in most cases that isn't the top.

With that said, I had the advantage of being tall and white. That's true. Not that it mattered, compared to the amount of disadvantages I had, but I do agree that it would be harder as a starting point if those 2 points also would've been against me.