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Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

reuters.com

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Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#401

Post by Vysero »

tonystubblebine wrote: post #175

There are two coaching perspectives that I think are useful for single men. We don't have many dating coaches in the coaching community I run, but I've been in long conversations with coaches outside that community whose job it is to help men date. One perspective is that it's almost always faster to focus on being more interested rather than more interesting. That means focusing on status and alpha male activities i…

I think you are WAY off base here. Most men aren't having sex not because women are turning them down; that's an appreciable factor for dating perhaps, but not for casual sex. They aren't having sex because they are NEVER putting themselves in a position to have sex. They aren't going to bars and they aren't hitting on women.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#402

Post by wcoenen »

Nav_Panel wrote: post #324
wcoenen wrote: post #275

8000 years ago, 17 women reproduced for every one man. This is based on analysis of DNA that is exclusively passed on by males (Y chromosome) and females (mitochondrial DNA). https://psmag.com/.amp/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-succ...

There was a lot more raping and pillaging back then, I assume. What's your point?

The biological reason for having males and females is ultimately game-theoretical: males spend less energy on reproduction. Females spend more energy (pregnancy), but compensate by demanding higher evolutionary fitness from the males.

The male strategy is high risk / high reward. During times of rapidly changing evolutionary pressure, there is a "winner takes all" effect. Perhaps we're going through such a period right now, just like 8000 years ago.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#403

Post by ttcbj »

tharne wrote: post #12

They buried the lede here. > Sexual activity was largely unchanged among unmarried women, along with no notable decline among gay men, researchers reported. Basically sex is following the pattern of wealth. Men as a group aren't having less sex, instead there's a winner take all effect where a small number of men are having a lot of sex with a lot of women while a large number of men are having little to no sex. It'l…

I think the first paragraph of the parent may be correct, but I think the second paragraph is inaccurate and unnecessarily discouraging to young men who may be reading this. Here is my experience as a happily married man:

1. Throughout my 20s and early thirties I was very, very unsuccessful with dating. I was shy, and lacked self-confidence. At age 32 I had had one partner, and a period from 27-32 with no relationships of any kind. I did go on a decent number of bad first dates during that period.

2. In my early thirties, I continued to be shy, not conventionally attractive, etc. But I became comfortable enough with myself to keep at dating consistently and to realize that rejections often were not about me (or didn't say anything bad about me). I continued to be well intentioned, sincere, conscientious, and generally decent. I came to understand who I was and what I was looking for better.

3. After many bad first dates, and a few unsuccessful medium term relationships, I met my wife. She is conventionally attractive. It happened that we were perfect for each other in other ways. We had similar financial values, we had compatible senses of humor, we both liked camping and backpacking, and we could just talk and laugh together endlessly (we still can to this day).

4. We dated for a year and half, got married, had kids, and have a spectacularly fortunate alliance 10 years in.

So, if my 32 year old self had read this thread, I would have been agreeing about 'apex predators' and legalized polygamy and the general hopelessness of everything.

But, I think there are many, many women who would love to meet and marry exactly the kind of decent, sincere, intelligent, thoughtful men who frequent HN. You just have to stick with it. You have to go on a lot of bad first dates. You have to be patient and not overly critical as you get to know people. You have to be looking for someone who is a really good match for you overall, and to whom you provide a lot of value.

My sincere advice is this: My 20s and early 30s were pretty awful in terms of dating. But if you meet someone wonderful for you at 33, none of that will matter in the long run. All that frustration will fade away, and you will be happy. So keep at it, even if dating really sucks most of the time.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#404

Post by cortesoft »

doc_gunthrop wrote: post #283
cortesoft wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any relationship they find will be tainted by knowing they weren't good enough to party with but good enough to marry. I am confused by this.... I would feel much better about myself knowing I was the one good enough to marry rather than the one who was only good enough to party with.

Your premise is based on a fallacy. The guy who is among the top 10% of men is the one who is good enough to party with AND good enough to marry. However, though this guy has a plethora of women at his disposal, he can only select one for marriage. For the women who weren't chosen, their first choice guy is no longer an option, so they have to settle for a plan B (that is, a less desirable man). So even if you were "…

You're premise is based on a fallacy... that there is a strict ordering of men, and women all have the same order.

A marriage is about finding a person who fits with you, and you can build a life together. That is not the same person for everyone. My best partner is not the same as your best partner.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#406

Post by tonystubblebine »

Vysero wrote: post #401
tonystubblebine wrote: post #175

There are two coaching perspectives that I think are useful for single men. We don't have many dating coaches in the coaching community I run, but I've been in long conversations with coaches outside that community whose job it is to help men date. One perspective is that it's almost always faster to focus on being more interested rather than more interesting. That means focusing on status and alpha male activities i…

I think you are WAY off base here. Most men aren't having sex not because women are turning them down; that's an appreciable factor for dating perhaps, but not for casual sex. They aren't having sex because they are NEVER putting themselves in a position to have sex. They aren't going to bars and they aren't hitting on women.

I don't see where we disagree. Both can be true.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#407

Post by ravitation »

bjl wrote: post #232
thewarrior wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the data also shows that for women the figure is unchanged.

Because the men that are willing to put in the effort are still having sex. Its not hard for a man to become attractive: eat right, exercise often, groom regularly, dress well, develop a compelling personality, cultivate relationships with interesting people. The fact that people who don't even try aren't able to have sex doesn't seem surprising (or bad).

You comically underestimate how hard those things are for many men, especially those that are economically disadvantaged. I don't agree with many of the takes in these comments, but your simplification to "just work harder" isn't any better.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#408

Post by nine_zeros »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #144
codingslave wrote: post #50

This is a widespread societal change that I think most people are completely unaware of. The majority of women are sleeping with the top 10% of men, sometimes only the top 3-5%, with the rest barely getting any at all. the sexual revolution was never about free love or sexual freedom, it was about womens rights to sleep with the few men they are all attracted to. The lower 80% of men instead saw their sexual freedom…

> But they do not see them as equals, as they have been having casual sex with men way out of their league for years. This is the part of this whole theory that I don't really get -- why would these presumably superficial men bother sleeping with women "way below their league" when they could be sleeping with women in, or at least near, their "league" all the time? Is the novelty of a constant huge supply of new part…

> This is the part of this whole theory that I don't really get -- why would these presumably superficial men bother sleeping with women "way below their league" when they could be sleeping with women in, or at least near, their "league" all the time? Is the novelty of a constant huge supply of new partners really that important vs. having a slightly smaller rotation of people in "your league"?

Not all top 20% are equal. For the top 10% men, sometimes the woman doesn't matter at all. There is no need to even try to maintain a huge rotation.

Sometimes they're just busy with work and don't maintain rotations. Other times they were bored and the first willing girl on tinder is ok for the night.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#409

Post by johncena33 »

klmadfejno wrote: post #312
tharne wrote: post #12

They buried the lede here. > Sexual activity was largely unchanged among unmarried women, along with no notable decline among gay men, researchers reported. Basically sex is following the pattern of wealth. Men as a group aren't having less sex, instead there's a winner take all effect where a small number of men are having a lot of sex with a lot of women while a large number of men are having little to no sex. It'l…

There's a large amount of debate over this issue. Whatever your opinion may be, the study doesn't seem to agree with it: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... Look at the chart for number of sexual partners reported by men and women by year. Honestly just read the study. It has data on many of the issues people are speculating about, including porn and what not. If you were to believe that a…

As minority man of color my own experience as well as my friends experience are absolutely in line with what OP has stated. Although I am well-educated, successful and reasonably good-looking, I've a hard time dating. OTOH women of my ethnicity do pretty well in dating market. The only way to explain this phenomenon is hypergamy.

Everyone I know in real life (from different genders and ethnicities) acknowledges this. But for some reason these issues spark a fierce debate online. I am not sure what I am missing here.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#410

Post by throwaway_98554 »

watwut wrote: post #271
cosmodisk wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things move faster in women world: in their 20s they run the show and a lot of average or above average men get rejected/ignored. In their 30s, the situation changes cardinally,as a lot of top candidates are already in relationships/married/kids,etc. So now most of those left behind moved on a bit,got better jobs,higher income,some even hit the gym,and so on. So now they are the ones who are choosing and all of sudde…

It is interesting that you are simultaneously ressentful of women not dating men of their age and simultaneously happy about old men dating young women. Given that there are similar amount of girls and boys, this guarantees that younger men of next generation will have to compete with older men for same pool of women.

I couldn't feel any emotion in the parent comment, only a description of how things are perceived to be. What makes you think there is resentment?
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