Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows • Hacker News Board

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#291

Post by toomuchtodo » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 8:05 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #278

GuiA wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're going to continue to see a decline in the total fertility rate as women shift from casual seeking to relationship/nesting in their 30s and find the market for partners to be much smaller than they would've anticipated These women tend to be wealthier on average, and thus have access to various “artificial” methods for conception. Egg freezing is becoming mainstream.

Apple and Facebook now offer egg freezing as an employee benefit.

I would very much be interested in stats on employees who use this benefit, and if they're unable to have kids in the future regardless of having their eggs frozen, regret their decision to prioritize their career over starting a family.

We had a friend over to our home, who earlier in life judged my partner for leaving a career to have children, and could not have a child of their own now. The regret during our conversation was palpable while she watched our children play in our backyard, and frankly it hurt my heart.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#292

Post by newguy1234 » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 8:05 PM UTC

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #203

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> getting married and starting a family This assumes people really want to do that. Children are too expensive unless you have a lot of resources already. I think if costs of basic living keep increasing the future is increasingly childless for many people.

The four biggest expenses for childcare are medical care, daycare, university, and housing. It's harder to compare housing but fertility rates are declining even in countries with free/cheap healthcare, daycare, and university.

This has been studied by sociologists and it basically comes down to people having more opportunities outside of the home to make money. For poor families, kids are viewed as an asset since you can use their labor to earn income through farming or other services. For higher-income homes, having a kid means you might have to reduce hours at work, miss promotion opportunities and so on. So people decide to not have kids.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#293

Post by 88840-8855 » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 8:05 PM UTC

bjl wrote: post #232

thewarrior wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the data also shows that for women the figure is unchanged.

Because the men that are willing to put in the effort are still having sex. Its not hard for a man to become attractive: eat right, exercise often, groom regularly, dress well, develop a compelling personality, cultivate relationships with interesting people. The fact that people who don't even try aren't able to have sex doesn't seem surprising (or bad).

Its not hard for a man to become attractive: just grow a little and be over 6ft.

/discussion

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#294

Post by chrisjarvis » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 8:06 PM UTC

notyourday wrote: post #215

downerending wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed this among the young men in my extended family and friends. One guy is model cute, and goes out on Tinder "dates" whenever he wants (new girl weekly, at least). He had a live-in girlfriend, but with an open relationship. And if I were one of these women, I'd probably do the same thing. Even if you can't marry a hottie, if you can have sex with one a few times, that still sounds like fun. The other guys,…

> Instead, video games and pot. If their free time is about video games and pot, I would say they only have themselves to blame.

I generally agree with this but I think our society has somehow morphed into a place where you have to actively and mindfully avoid this lifestyle. Video games, binge watching, pornography, fast food, pot, alcohol, etc. The drugs of the modern world are pervasive and this lifestyle is not stigmatized whatsoever even though it is a recipe for depression.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#295

Post by ravenstine » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 8:07 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #152

tootahe45 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Simply not having as much sex as one would prefer, or any at all, does not make one an incel. It literally does though. You can't change definitions because someone gave the name a bad rep.

"Someone" didn't give the name a bad rep, and I'm not the one changing its definition. The entire incel movement changed the definition by giving itself a bad rep. If you want to take 'incel' back and try to reclaim its neutrality and separate it from the toxicity of the culture, you'll have as much luck as someone trying to claim the alt-right movement isn't really about racism, even though racists have been all ove…

"Incel" isn't a movement.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#296

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 8:07 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #236

cortesoft wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any relationship they find will be tainted by knowing they weren't good enough to party with but good enough to marry. I am confused by this.... I would feel much better about myself knowing I was the one good enough to marry rather than the one who was only good enough to party with.

Ultimately, it usually means you're not that desirable - just reliable. Almost everyone wants to be desirable.

[deleted]

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#297

Post by elliekelly » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 8:07 PM UTC

gertlex wrote: post #230

Grimm1 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a high earner in tech like I imagine many people on the forum, and also like many people on the forum my life is super busy. My last relationship ended really badly took like two years to get over it and then I was suddenly really busy and I've kept being really busy as my titles have changed and my personal interest in starting my own business has increased etc etc and now we're in a pandemic. I'd argue that the…

> I'd argue that there's a whole group of young guys who are just so freaking busy and not really in a place where they can meet a bunch of single women ... I'm not sure this is new? I also wonder how large is the group is, and whether this category is as applicable outside of tech (which is a small fraction of the population in my mind). I suspect it's not that large, and groupings by other categories discussed else…

I definitely think it applies to the finance industry as well. Basically all of my friends are divorced men in their 40s because their spouses got sick of being married to no one.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#298

Post by electricviolet » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 8:08 PM UTC

Mizza wrote: post #57

tharne wrote: post #12

They buried the lede here. > Sexual activity was largely unchanged among unmarried women, along with no notable decline among gay men, researchers reported. Basically sex is following the pattern of wealth. Men as a group aren't having less sex, instead there's a winner take all effect where a small number of men are having a lot of sex with a lot of women while a large number of men are having little to no sex. It'l…

Incels call this "hypergamy": https://incels.wiki/images/thumb/c/c8/C57f84720fff59cf295616... Although misogynistic incels are obviously abhorrent, I believe that they're probably right in their assessment of their own social status. It just seems like rather than trying to better themselves, they turn it into outward hatred. I've also seen calls by right-wing thought leaders for "enforced monogamy," which obviously…

Have you considered that those who prefer monogamy and those who prefer sleeping around / being a "slut" simply have different personalities?

Just because your monogamous friends are happy and fulfilled doesn't mean your slutty friends would be happy if they lived the same way.

Humans are varied.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#299

Post by newguy1234 » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 8:08 PM UTC

foepys wrote: post #24

tharne wrote: post #12

They buried the lede here. > Sexual activity was largely unchanged among unmarried women, along with no notable decline among gay men, researchers reported. Basically sex is following the pattern of wealth. Men as a group aren't having less sex, instead there's a winner take all effect where a small number of men are having a lot of sex with a lot of women while a large number of men are having little to no sex. It'l…

I don't have data for this but I believe that legal polygamy is a big contributor to political extremism. Sexual frustration leads to inferiority complexes that result in aggression against the norm. As an example I see the Middle East where polygamy is not unheard of and the rise of the Islamic State or the Taliban. Would be interesting if anybody has data on this.

Just research the rise of incel subcultures and there is your evidence.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#300

Post by Nav_Panel » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 8:08 PM UTC

roosterdawn wrote: post #247

downerending wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed this among the young men in my extended family and friends. One guy is model cute, and goes out on Tinder "dates" whenever he wants (new girl weekly, at least). He had a live-in girlfriend, but with an open relationship. And if I were one of these women, I'd probably do the same thing. Even if you can't marry a hottie, if you can have sex with one a few times, that still sounds like fun. The other guys,…

Sadly, this feels intuitively correct. I've heard a formalization of the prisoner's dilemma called the IQ shredder [1]. Whether it's a reach or not is something I am still debating internally. At the very least, I do sense that I, as someone who's working in tech and experience relatively stable upward career momentum, there's only so long I can "hang on" to my yuppie lifestyle before it works against my end goals to…

IQ Shredder is a dangerous concept, because it displaces "human worth" onto _individual_ fertility and offspring. If we follow that ethics a little further, we might find ourselves fully devaluating any religious practice which has an element of chastity (because it's dysgenic, obviously!), as well as condemning homosexuality along similar lines.

The fact of the matter is that, psychologically speaking on the level of a single individual, we do not seek offspring so much as pleasures, and sex and child-rearing are some of life's greatest pleasures. But that does not mean they're the exclusive sources of pleasure available in any culture, and I would warn against putting too much faith in any such notions.