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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#491

Post by dgellow »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #448
dgellow wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect that someone with an assault weapon and what looks like a bullet proof vest is scary for quite a lot of people. And that's notable in the sense that is goes against the idea of "a peaceful event similar to a music festival" (paraphrasing).

But you see stuff like that at music festivals as well, in the form of police. So I'm asking why this is scary or notable but that is not.

Just my personal opinion: I’m from a european country, so not a US perspective. Anyone with a weapon is scary as hell. I avoid to come close to any military or police people if they seem to be armed.

Also I don’t know how are festivals in the US, but I’ve never seen armed cops at one, and would be really uncomfortable if there would be some.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#492

Post by ascagnel_ »

djsumdog wrote: post #434
missedthecue wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They put up a cardboard sign that said "you are now leaving the USA" and graffitied some surfaces. https://i.imgur.com/f6VHPJ0.jpg

I wonder what the end game is. The police is not going to disband. People asking for that don't understand how States work. You cannot have a State without a monopoly on violence. America disbanded police once, in 2003, in a city called Baghdad. That turned out wonderfully. I suspect they'll all just get bored at some point.

The endgame is a radical re-think of society, and how society is funded. You've probably seen "defund the police" as a slogan bandied about lately -- police departments have been taking an ever-increasing chunk of city budgets, while education and other social services have either remained at the same funding level or have been cut. Spend less money on the state's monopoly on violence, spend more on reducing the need for violence.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#493

Post by gonational »

Nursie wrote: post #345
gonational wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unchecked power is bad Are you pro individual gun ownership? The second amendment exists in the US Constitution, first and foremost to balance the power between a populous and would-be tyrants.

> The second amendment exists in the US Constitution, first and foremost to balance the power between a populous and would-be tyrants. So the solution for police not being regulated enough, is for the people to take up arms against them? Rather than fixing the regulations?

Firstly, I never said anything about taking up arms against anyone. I am simply stating the fact that “unchecked power” is impossible when a monopoly of power (force... aka weapons) is held by the state.

History has shown us over and over and over that an unarmed populace will either A) be subject to unchecked violence by its overlords, or B) be successfully invaded by new and less desirable overlords.

Secondly, “fixing the regulations” is not necessary; what is necessary is enforcing the already existing regulations.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#494

Post by _-david-_ »

milquetoastaf wrote: post #31
ciarannolan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the OP of that post: >tl;dw: Man was tagging over someone else's art, Raz and group approach and separate him from crowd, chasing him for two blocks. He begins to film them with his phone, they take it from him. He tries to get it back and they attack him, kicking him in the head and breaking his glasses. At one point, Raz threatens to shoot the man. They then begin to gaslight him that it was all his fault. Aud…

Because something like this would never happen with the police involved...

I don't think the person you were responding to ever made the claim that it would never happen if the police were there. I think the point is that it did happen. If this is supposed to be a utopia free of cops then they are doing a poor job. They have "cops" that beat up people for petty crimes.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#495

Post by djsumdog »

acidburnNSA wrote: post #470
djsumdog wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived there in 2016, next to the Rite Aid outside (or maybe inside?) the CHAZ. The homeless situation was absolutely terrible for an American city. Sure it's not as bad as shanty towns I've seen in India or Malaysia, but it wasn't good. Housing was/is insane with shared rooms anywhere near the city being $700 and a 1 bedroom to yourself going for ~$2k. Not as bad as SF/The Bay, but still not good by any means. Sure…

I lived 1 block from there, by Lindas until a year ago. What kind of interactions with homeless people did you have to say it is absolutely terrible? I occasionally saw a homeless person, but that was about the worst of it. And I was out on the town a lot. Oh my car got broken into once as well. Once in 11 years.

I just saw so many of them .. more than I have in any other city in the developed world (and I've lived a lot of places).

I never had any bad interactions with them I guess, but I broke my heart to see that many of them, especially in the downtown areas and further out towards the Interstate and underpasses.

I dunno, maybe I'm too sensitive, but it broke my heart. It's one of the many reasons I left Seattle.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#497

Post by mcv »

djsumdog wrote: post #434
missedthecue wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They put up a cardboard sign that said "you are now leaving the USA" and graffitied some surfaces. https://i.imgur.com/f6VHPJ0.jpg

I wonder what the end game is. The police is not going to disband. People asking for that don't understand how States work. You cannot have a State without a monopoly on violence. America disbanded police once, in 2003, in a city called Baghdad. That turned out wonderfully. I suspect they'll all just get bored at some point.

They apparently also did it in Camden, NJ, and that turned out quite well.

I think the real issue here is: the police want to show that without them, things turn to chaos. Instead, they show that with them, things turn to chaos. Meanwhile, the protesters want to show that without the police, things are peaceful, and they seem to be succeeding.

That's not a great story for people who believe in police brutality, of course.

And yes, if the entire police department believes that they need to use force to dominate the American people, they refuse to stop when ordered to by the civilian government, and resist change, then disbanding the police and starting over with a better organised police force might not be such a bad idea at all.

It's not easy, and it's important to quickly have some alternative to fall back on, but when it's the police itself that's part of the problem, something needs to be done about that.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#498

Post by enumjorge »

kenneth wrote: post #486

I am rather amused that the same group is simultaneously calling for the tearing down of secessionist monuments and statues, while promoting a secession of their own. The cognitive dissonance is real.

That misses the point. The problem people have with the statues is that they honor people who they feel promoted/protected the subjugation of another group. They’re not taking offense to the act of secession.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#499

Post by zozbot234 »

mcv wrote: post #424
drevil-v2 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle police chief said on TV [1] that "Rapes, robberies and all sorts of violent acts have been occurring in the area and we're not able to get to [them]." Doesn’t sound very utopian [1] https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1271291958296604675?s=2...

Wasn't it the police who abandoned this area in the first place? The impression I'm getting from this and other events from the past weeks is that the police would like us to believe that without them, society turns to chaos, but in practice, US police turns out to be a major source of chaos, and without them things often turn much more peaceful. I'm not saying there should be no police at all, but that police should…

The whole area is only a few blocks. A society on that scale can be peaceful even without any organized police presence, but we knew that already: just look at how any small town or village is run. The problem with larger neighborhoods and cities is that often there is no real sense of community to speak of, so nothing for police to "work with" in the first place.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#500

Post by commandlinefan »

latencyloser wrote: post #382
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the right, I am seeing: - It's called Antifastan - Warlord Raz is prone to violent outbursts, and is an AirBnb Superhost. - There are open carries with automatic rifles. They get the most respect. - Laughing out loud at an attempt to create a vegetable garden. Didn't appear promising. - Laughing harder at a cry for 'please send vegan meats and soy products, the homeless took all the food!' My thinking is, the trut…

Those are not automatic rifles, they're very likely all semi-automatic. Semi-automatic rifles can look the same as automatic rifles, visual appearance doesn't mean much. Automatic rifles in the US are much, much more difficult and expensive to acquire than one would think--tens of thousands of dollars usually vs ~$500 for a semi-automatic variant. Sorry if that seems pedantic, but the media uses the understandably ea…

> Semi-automatic rifles can look the same as automatic rifles

And the people who confuse the two often talk about banning semi-automatic firearms (which ends up being just about all of them).

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