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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#451

Post by ogre_codes »

thu2111 wrote: post #349
dilbertforgenz wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you hear about the ice cream man who goes around town serving rancid rat milk sundaes to kids? Of course, he doesn't exist, but, if he did, I'm taking a strong stance against him being taken down, by whatever means necessary. Threatening to serve dubious sundaes to kids is not cool.

They don't exist? Why are there photos of them then? https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/conte... https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1271196018554494977... The claims that these militias are extorting businesses doesn't come from "the right", it comes from claims by the local police chief. Addressing the takeover of the area surrounding the Seattle Police Department’s abandoned East Precinct…

> these militias

It's one dude, every single post about the militias shows this exact dude in these exact clothes. One dude is not a militia. There are a bunch of stories about this guy apparently he's guarding all the entrances and still has time to extort local businesses. No wonder he doesn't have time to change clothes, he's one busy dude.

> But knowing these sorts of things is part of her job

Knowing that she has a massive vested interest in demonstrating that police are needed in the zone, I take everything she says with a massive grain of salt.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#452

Post by empath75 »

solidasparagus wrote: post #94
conroy wrote: post #84

A friend lives in Seattle and texted me today about his visit last night: > I was there last night and it's such a cool pseudo utopian place > The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground > There are speakers, musicians, art walls. I took a group pic for a bunch of black guys las…

> a music festival campground Which is fun for a while until people start dying or fighting like they always do and suddenly you need a group of people who spend their time dealing with it. Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long.

Yeah, eventually it will end up with all homeless people and drug addicts, unfortunately. For now, there's enough regular people to keep it feeling safe and fun, but eventually it will get 'scary' and the normal people will leave and it'll basically be skid row.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#453

Post by throwaway894345 »

zaarn wrote: post #360
deathgrips wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American police departments have no duty to protect you. They are law enforcement officers who choose at their own discretion to arrive at your home seven minutes after you dial 911.

Make it their duty to protect you.

It's really strange how people in this thread refuse to believe that the "reform the police" option even exists. As though we must either have a subpar police system or no police system at all. It's also strange how many people think that getting rid of the police will just work itself out.

1. Abolish police.

2. >

3. Prosper.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#454

Post by jakelazaroff »

luckylion wrote: post #419
jakelazaroff wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not drawing any sort of dichotomy; I'm just asking for an explanation as to why this is notable.

"There are no armed guards", "It felt more like a summer street fair festival" picture of armed guards with semi-automatic rifles "Why do you think this is notable?"

There are armed guards in everyday life as well (police). So again, why is this especially scary or notable?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#455

Post by baryphonic »

0x262d wrote: post #88
jerf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not even remotely "by all accounts". There are plenty of accounts that isn't "cool and unique" but is just another place ruled by violent thugs: https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/h077uv/raz_simone_... I'm not passing judgment yet since the days are young and the political bias on the ground is thick in both directions. But it is definitely not "by all accounts". But my personal bias on the table is that y…

A handful of incidents like these are being distorted and blown up by media that treats cop lies uncritically. In comparison, just a few nights ago, cops were beating people and filling the area with tear gas (banned under geneva convention) and it was seeping into residential homes so badly that even nextdoor is anti-police in that area now.

I find it hard to take comments seriously when they make statements that just don't accord with reality.

The media treats cops according to what's best for the story. Lately, that involves being extremely critical of them. In other times when we aren't in the midst of a pandemic, mass unemployment and then nationwide protests, and the story is that the cops shot a criminal suspect, they use euphemisms like "officer-involved shooting." The media narrative today is extremely hostile to police.

So when I see "only a handful of incidents," I feel there might be a bit of an agenda behind that. Knocking down the World Trade Center twin towers and a side of the Pentagon were only a "handful of incidents," too. Not to mention the number of unarmed black people shot by police last year (nine total). All of those are a disgrace, but the sheer number of atrocities that happen are irrelevant to how unjust or outrageous the atrocities might be.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#456

Post by zaarn »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #453
zaarn wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make it their duty to protect you.

It's really strange how people in this thread refuse to believe that the "reform the police" option even exists. As though we must either have a subpar police system or no police system at all. It's also strange how many people think that getting rid of the police will just work itself out. 1. Abolish police. 2. > 3. Prosper.

Many other countries have a police system that works much better than the US but obviously the only possible solutions in the search space are "Americanism" or "Nothing".

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#457

Post by virgil_disgr4ce »

djsumdog wrote: post #434
missedthecue wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They put up a cardboard sign that said "you are now leaving the USA" and graffitied some surfaces. https://i.imgur.com/f6VHPJ0.jpg

I wonder what the end game is. The police is not going to disband. People asking for that don't understand how States work. You cannot have a State without a monopoly on violence. America disbanded police once, in 2003, in a city called Baghdad. That turned out wonderfully. I suspect they'll all just get bored at some point.

It's less about end game than it is simply about practicing a set of ideas, and really just about living life the way they want to live it. Isn't that the essence of America? And will it last forever? No, probably not. That doesn't mean it was a failure or that it wasn't worth doing.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#458

Post by undersuit »

conroy wrote: post #84

A friend lives in Seattle and texted me today about his visit last night: > I was there last night and it's such a cool pseudo utopian place > The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground > There are speakers, musicians, art walls. I took a group pic for a bunch of black guys las…

My friend in Seattle told me they put up a wall, armed thugs are shaking down businesses inside and ICE agents were controlling admission. I'm glad to know it's just a mural.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#459

Post by ogre_codes »

djsumdog wrote: post #434
missedthecue wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They put up a cardboard sign that said "you are now leaving the USA" and graffitied some surfaces. https://i.imgur.com/f6VHPJ0.jpg

I wonder what the end game is. The police is not going to disband. People asking for that don't understand how States work. You cannot have a State without a monopoly on violence. America disbanded police once, in 2003, in a city called Baghdad. That turned out wonderfully. I suspect they'll all just get bored at some point.

> I wonder what the end game is

I don't know, it's like a massive catch-22. People are sick of police abuses, but society needs police to some extent. I agree with much of what the protests are about, but struggle with their solutions.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#460

Post by djsumdog »

acidburnNSA wrote: post #421
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #229

I lived in Seattle Capitol Hill (Harvard Ave by SCCC) area for 10 years and left the state in 2010. I went back a few years ago for a visit and it looked like the homeless population had doubled in the time since. All of King and Pierce counties are completely overrun by homelessness and drug addiction. I remember it was a big deal when they would go sweep out "The Jungle" tent city under I-5 at Beacon Hill. Now they…

> Completely overrun by homelessness and drug addiction I lived in capitol hill for a decade, 3 blocks from CHAZ, and recently moved a mile away. The city is not even remotely overrun with homelessness. Sure, there are people without homes. Do they seriously impact the lifestyle of others? Hardly at all. This characterization of the Puget Sound feels way out of touch to me. It's a wonderful place to live.

I lived there in 2016, next to the Rite Aid outside (or maybe inside?) the CHAZ. The homeless situation was absolutely terrible for an American city. Sure it's not as bad as shanty towns I've seen in India or Malaysia, but it wasn't good. Housing was/is insane with shared rooms anywhere near the city being $700 and a 1 bedroom to yourself going for ~$2k. Not as bad as SF/The Bay, but still not good by any means.

Sure it's not "overrun," but there are a lot of them, and not enough jobs or affordable housing.

People complained about homeless people coming into the city for the benefits and I thought that was just a myth the Amazon employees would spew, but I talked to a social worker who told me that's true and that her office dealt with a lot of people who came to Seattle because of their programs and benefits.

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