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Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

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Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#331

Post by sandgiant »

ekianjo wrote: post #325
yiyus wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science is not a faith based system. If you doubt about the rigor of some study, by all means point the errors you find. In the meantime, I will trust those scientific studies more than subjective opinions in hackernews comments.

> If you doubt about the rigor of some study, by all means point the errors you find. In the meantime, I will trust those scientific studies more than subjective opinions in hackernews comments. Maybe, but most published studies are close to pure garbage and even in clinical trials which is supposed to be the holy grail of Science there's cherry picking, improper design, and lack of repeatability across the board. "S…

Nice.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#332

Post by sgift »

etage3 wrote: post #272
yiyus wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science is not a faith based system. If you doubt about the rigor of some study, by all means point the errors you find. In the meantime, I will trust those scientific studies more than subjective opinions in hackernews comments.

Science is faith based for the non-scientific. As you put it yourself, it is about trusting studies and the institutions that produced it (including whatever in them creates the incentives for p-hacking).

No scientist expects anyone to trust studies or the institutions producing them. So, that's wrong from the beginning. The expectation of refuting something is just a bit higher than "I don't believe it!", e.g. read the study and show flaws in it - or make a counter study which shows different results. Maybe combine both.

Comparing this to faith where from the start you cannot check anything doesn't make any sense (if you know that something is true or false it isn't faith anymore, that's the point).

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#333

Post by bonoboTP »

waheoo wrote: post #302
bonoboTP wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it probably correlates with ambient light. I like light mode but I also like to open the blinds, turn on the lamps etc, as opposed to the stereotypical dark basement hacking with a hoodie on. Dark mode is also very often buggy, clumsy, the color schemes for syntax highlight are subjectively less pleasing, it feels gloomier, less cheerful, I see more distracting dust on the screen, smudges etc. Yeah I could also…

I use gruvbox, light when there is a lot of light around (e.g. im outside) and dark mode when im indoors. There is more to this than all the biological talk too. I use it as a context switch and prefer to review code in light mode, while i prefer to write code in dark mode. Either it helps with the context switching or reading is just easier in light mode, while writing is easier in dark mode because its easier focus…

Also I'm becoming more and more convinced that we humans are extremely adaptive. With regards to major and minor things as well. People can adapt to eating 6 small meals a day and then swear they would not be able to concentrate after skipping one of them. Others eat one meal a day, exercise fasted and skip entire days of food and report very good mental clarity and love it. Some only eat vegan and with a few supplements live very well. Other eat purely carnivore (exclusively salt, meat and water) and report good results after an initial phase of toilet hell.

Some people never exercise and live to 90 years. Some people are night owls and do their best work at 3 AM and have no concept of a schedule but get stuff done brilliantly. Others have to dogmatically stick to a schedule and a rigid morning and evening routine and swear by waking up at 4:30.

Partially it's their genetics but a huge part is habits and adaptation. Humans can function in the polar circle, in the jungle, on the savanna, in urban hell, in the suburbs, on farms etc.

Any study that wants to test the difference in benefits of different habits would need to allow for the adaptations to take place, the adjacent habits to adjust to the new style etc. You cannot just take one thing in isolation. Maybe I like light color schemes because I do most of my work in the daylight and sleep at night. There can be tons of confounders and doing months long randomized studies is rare.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#334

Post by SkyBelow »

athenot wrote: post #310
marcus_holmes wrote: post #241

Wait. So. "Multiple studies show that light mode is better" trumps my actual experience, with my eyeballs, in my office environment? No. No it doesn't. 1. I don't have that much faith in scientists. Someone trying to p-hack their way to a publishable result that's sensational enough to advance their career is not going to produce good advice for me. 2. Even if they were perfect scientists, they're not using my eyebal…

Dark mode has 2 main advantages: - Better rendering of hues. This comes in nice for things like syntax coloring, or photo editing. The eye is evaluating a color next to the absence of light, instead of next to washed out light. - Less eye strain when ambient light is insufficient. Ideally the brightness of the screen should be within the same range of brighness as the surroundings. In my home office, I have about 20,…

As someone who uses both dark mode and light mode, a major factor is if I'm in a darker area. When I read books on my phone, I prefer dark mode at night and light mode during the day.

To what extent are these studies testing these sub-optimal reading conditions? Are they just testing optimal conditions which could have different results?

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#335

Post by kstenerud »

I wonder how much of the HN discussion stems from what time of day people typically read text on their devices?

I'm one of those morning people, who works best from 5:00 AM to around noon. I like white backgrounds and black text, with lots of contrast. Anything else is just harder to read, and contributes to eye strain. These new dark UIs, and also flat UIs in general are just harder for me to read and harder to identify and separate the components, so I try to avoid them when I can. The Windows 10 UI is a particularly egregious example. The sun deck on my farm is my ideal development environment.

However, I can imagine that someone who generally works in a dark environment would prefer a dark background so as not to blast their eyes with light.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#336

Post by ryan93 »

philliphaydon wrote: post #276
aasasd wrote: post #76

Apparently light-on-dark is terrible if the person has astigmatism: the edges get very blurry and doubled. There was an article on HN about this, specifically about keynote slides. Also apparently “in Europe and Asia, astigmatism affects between 30 and 60% of adults” (says Wikipedia). I have it too, and couldn't figure out in the past why text sometimes looks horribly blurry and sometimes doesn't. With this knowledge…

I’m 34. Had 20/20 vision all my life. Until around April this year from being in lockdown and stuck at home working more due to not going out and such. I felt like I’m getting eye strain. And difficulty focusing. I ended up with glasses 3 weeks ago for “computer vision” I can’t wear them walking around the house as it makes me feel dizzy. But in front of the computer it makes a difference. Think I’m gonna try find a…

I had to switch from contacts to glasses after leaving college and getting an office job. My eye doctor said staring at screens causes focusing issues.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#337

Post by cosmodisk »

kstenerud wrote: post #335

I wonder how much of the HN discussion stems from what time of day people typically read text on their devices? I'm one of those morning people, who works best from 5:00 AM to around noon. I like white backgrounds and black text, with lots of contrast. Anything else is just harder to read, and contributes to eye strain. These new dark UIs, and also flat UIs in general are just harder for me to read and harder to iden…

>I wonder how much of the HN discussion stems from what time of day people typically read text on their devices?

It does matter a lot.Entire marketing strategies are based om when is the best time to post things on SM platforms.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#338

Post by dota_fanatic »

taneq wrote: post #329
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they were discussing the subject of, how our conscious estimation of our subjective experience can be way off. Which is a legitimate point?

Is it? I mean, serious question - aren't they they same thing? What IS our subjective experience if not our conscious estimation of how we experienced the thing? Is it possible to think you're enjoying something when really you're not, and if so then what the heck does that even mean?

Although we're far from figuring out the mind in general, much less specifically to certain individuals, there's growing evidence that minds are a collective of sub-units which vie for conscious attention but are nonetheless active in subconscious even if "you" don't know it.

As an example, one part of your mind could be extremely conditioned to want to please and be with someone who is (objectively) abusing you and so you think you're having a good time when they do show you attention, while another part of your mind hates them for hurting you. There are countless examples of how different parts of a single mind can be at odds with each other, and depending on when you think deeply about an experience, can both have enjoyed and not enjoyed an experience.

It's not unreasonable to think that similar mechanics are at play with more subtle, less social-based mechanics. Food (and drugs) have a lot of this going on too.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#339

Post by JoeAltmaier »

taneq wrote: post #329
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they were discussing the subject of, how our conscious estimation of our subjective experience can be way off. Which is a legitimate point?

Is it? I mean, serious question - aren't they they same thing? What IS our subjective experience if not our conscious estimation of how we experienced the thing? Is it possible to think you're enjoying something when really you're not, and if so then what the heck does that even mean?

Well, eating at a restaurant with my wife, I said "This is really good!"

She looked askance, said "Well, its a little salty".

"Yeah, I guess it is."

"And not really very hot"

"Oh, yeah. Hm."

"And there no spice in it. Kinda plain."

"Dang, you're right"

So was I enjoying it? Or the experience of being out with the wife and not having to cook? Or just hungry and anything would do? And I'd mis-attributed what I was enjoying. Clearly my 'subjective experience' was not very, well, objective.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#340

Post by onli »

taneq wrote: post #329
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they were discussing the subject of, how our conscious estimation of our subjective experience can be way off. Which is a legitimate point?

Is it? I mean, serious question - aren't they they same thing? What IS our subjective experience if not our conscious estimation of how we experienced the thing? Is it possible to think you're enjoying something when really you're not, and if so then what the heck does that even mean?

You can enjoy what you want. The article we are discussing has measurable claims:

1. Easier to read

2. Eye Strain

3. Battery savings

Your subjective "studies" about that are irrelevant if you put them in contrast to proper scientific studies for those things - if you don't measure them properly. And that's not how you feel about it. That's what I was saying.

And it does not matter for that whether you like dark or bright mode, whether you follow the article or speak against it :) That might be part of the confusion.

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