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New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

theintercept.com

71–80 of 500 posts

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#71
post #25

I used to work at Facebook, and it was always interesting to me to see just how many engineers were actively against - aghast, even - at the idea of unions. Whenever it would come up on the internal boards the arguments were usually along the lines of: * "People who don't deserve to be paid more will get more money under a union" * "I'll be paid less under a union" * "Unions will slow us down, and we'll become more b…

> You'd struggle to find any writer who didn't think the Writers Guild had actively improved their working conditions.

Writing and acting are race to the bottom. There are plenty of people who would be willing to act for free. You can't say the same for working at Facebook.

In order to stop the race-to-the bottom SAG-AFTRA artificially constrains the marketplace by forcing studios hire a certain number of union actors. In this case, it doesn't really hurt newbies because they'd otherwise get paid peanuts anyways. However, that isn't something that people would want in tech expect perhaps in the videogame industry.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#72
post #25

I used to work at Facebook, and it was always interesting to me to see just how many engineers were actively against - aghast, even - at the idea of unions. Whenever it would come up on the internal boards the arguments were usually along the lines of: * "People who don't deserve to be paid more will get more money under a union" * "I'll be paid less under a union" * "Unions will slow us down, and we'll become more b…

many engineers were actively against - aghast, even - at the idea of unions

“Union” is a trigger word but call it an association like BMA, BALPA, or a Federation (Police) or even a guild, and everyone would be if not on board, at least willing to have a non-emotive conversation.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've fought this feature in products for years - the product ppl always wanna ban bad words and I'm like - you can't, it literally never works, it just becomes a stupid arms race and it's not worth our time. I always lose this argument for some reason.

It's like the button at traffic lights that does nothing: it's not about actually working, it's about giving the user a feeling of control.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_button

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#76
post #25

I used to work at Facebook, and it was always interesting to me to see just how many engineers were actively against - aghast, even - at the idea of unions. Whenever it would come up on the internal boards the arguments were usually along the lines of: * "People who don't deserve to be paid more will get more money under a union" * "I'll be paid less under a union" * "Unions will slow us down, and we'll become more b…

> Unions will slow us down, and we'll become more bureaucratic Anyone who's actually had to deal with a union can agree with this point. At our company, a number of job functions are union-only work, meaning it is a violation of the union contract for any non-union employee to perform that work. In principle, you might think that makes sense, until you need to get something very simple done - that you are willing to…

This is true of many many unions, but it is neither a necessary part of a union, nor exclusive to unions.

At my company, the majority (all?) employees in my local office are un-unionised. We have the same system (it's just departmental). This is a system that emerges in large old bureaucracies regardless.

Which is why it's present in many unions tracing their formation back to the early 20th century. They're big and they're old.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#77
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the person to fight in my corner is me? Unions drag everyone's wages to an average. Poor performers get paid more, top performers get paid less. No thanks, I can negotiate for myself. Look at teachers and police unions for a prime example. Great police get paid the same as the police who racially profile. Great teachers get paid the same as the teachers who phone it in. Additionally unions protect incompetent…

ok, but hear me out on this: how do you know you are earning as much as you should? I mean if we take facebook as an example, you can't negotiate pay. You're slapped on a scale and thats it. You might be able to up your share offer, but actual pay is fixed on a scale. Which is the same as what it would be if it was unionised. Also, you have chosen two professions that are run by public organisations, so pay is always…

>I mean if we take facebook as an example, you can't negotiate pay

Stocks basically are pay, because anyone who doesn't immediately sell them as they vest is fiscally irresponsible.

>Which is the same as what it would be if it was unionised

Firstly, no. The scale is wide and you are placed somewhere between the low and high points of the scale for your level. Not every L5 engineer earns the same thing. Secondly, total compensation is what matters.

>Also, you have chosen two professions that are run by public organisations, so pay is always going to be low

Tech contractors for public organisations in my area are paid more or less market rate.

>However in other countries, teachers unions are very effective at settling compensation

Not for top performers, they are paid the same as low performers.

>The UK for example has reasonably well paid teachers

If you are the best teacher in the country, you get severely underpaid.

>Statistics say that in practice your probably earning close to median for tech

I earn 110% more than the median wage for my particular level, according to Glassdoor/Levels/etc. I don't think I'm special, but I think I perform highly and are paid in kind for that. Given I'm capable of analysing my own impact, it's pretty clear I'm paid a fraction of the value I provide to the company too.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#78

Clearly, they don't play online games with a chat lobby. They would have quickly learned that such features is useless, as it's easily bypassed: - in novembre, we should cost them the electrons. Ionize! - It's time we u_nionize - un10n1z3 people ! - let's fetch the U:\N\I\O\N\I\Z\E file - all go to http://unio.ni/ze - so we should do the u-thingy - what about talking to Mr Ulysse Nionize - never too late to unᎥonize…

I've fought this feature in products for years - the product ppl always wanna ban bad words and I'm like - you can't, it literally never works, it just becomes a stupid arms race and it's not worth our time. I always lose this argument for some reason.

In apps targeted to kids I've found it to be often a useful deterrent. And can even shift the culture a bit; it makes it very clear what is "ok" and what is not.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#79
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've fought this feature in products for years - the product ppl always wanna ban bad words and I'm like - you can't, it literally never works, it just becomes a stupid arms race and it's not worth our time. I always lose this argument for some reason.

Here’s a good article to show people: http://habitatchronicles.com/2007/03/the-untold-history-of-t...

Rocket League's approach to this is very good.

The D-pad is bound to several predefined words and phrases that are useful such as "Nice shot!" or "Great pass!". Because of the fast paced nature of the game it's pretty tough to try to abuse this system (maybe by spelling words with the first letters of allowed phrases?) but no one does that.

To appease the folks who wanted to express that they were using a curse word, you can also send "$#@%!". It's really satisfying to be able to express a curse when you accidentally send the ball flying towards your own team's goal, for instance.

Of course they also have straight up text chat where they asterisk out curse words and anything that might look like personal info such as phone numbers. If you're on a console, it's unlikely you even have a keyboard hooked up. And the text input system for controllers is just too slow to type anything worthwhile in the limited time you have during goal-replays. Typing anything more than a few words means you're not helping your team which is naturally shamed and can lead to a server kick.

It drastically reduces the toxic bigotry that usually pops up on extremely popular multiplayer games. The only exception is that people sometimes have bigoted usernames which are tougher to censor for the reasons mentioned in the article.

Anyway, while I do think it's an arms race of sorts, Rocket League has gotten about as close to possible to solving the issue.

Re: New Facebook tool allows employers to suppress “unionize” in workplace chat

#80
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the person to fight in my corner is me? Unions drag everyone's wages to an average. Poor performers get paid more, top performers get paid less. No thanks, I can negotiate for myself. Look at teachers and police unions for a prime example. Great police get paid the same as the police who racially profile. Great teachers get paid the same as the teachers who phone it in. Additionally unions protect incompetent…

To me it seems "top performers" are not really recognized and job jumpers are the ones that are paid more.

If a company isn't meeting your salary expectations then leaving for a better offer is itself a negotiating tactic in a way.
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