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Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

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Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#241
post #72
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask why? I assume this is because many people think it is better that a left-leaning newspaper doesn't publish right-wing opinion pieces, but I would think that this creates a "bubble" and prevents readers from challenging their own opinions. A reduced version of this question would be: if Hitler/Xi/Kim were to publish an opinion piece in NYT, should they reject it or should they publish it?

For me it was not that it was a right/left opinion piece. It was a piece calling for the government to murder protesters which the editor solicited and published without reading. Nor was any context or commentary provided indicating such. (edit) You can also see, now, after the backlash, NYT agrees that it probably shouldn't have been published. Based on that review, we have concluded that the essay fell short of our…

It was a piece calling for the government to murder protesters which the editor solicited and published without reading.

Now, you too are making things up. This is where “fake news” charges come from.

Here’s what it actually said:

Those excuses are built on a revolting moral equivalence of rioters and looters to peaceful, law-abiding protesters. A majority who seek to protest peacefully shouldn’t be confused with bands of miscreants.

But the rioting has nothing to do with George Floyd, whose bereaved relatives have condemned violence. On the contrary, nihilist criminals are simply out for loot and the thrill of destruction, with cadres of left-wing radicals like antifa infiltrating protest marches to exploit Floyd’s death for their own anarchic purposes.

These rioters, if not subdued, not only will destroy the livelihoods of law-abiding citizens but will also take more innocent lives.

Sounds reasonable to me. This also proved correct. And I agree with the article.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#242
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just, Devil's Advocate, but do you think the accident could have been the police kicking in the door of the wrong apartment? The boyfriend shooting at the police does not seem accidental, nor does it seem in any way wrong to my mind. If the officers had kicked in the door of the right apartment, the boyfriend would not have tried to take the officers out. Again, a completely appropriate and well reasoned response in…

i agree with what you said. the entire ordeal was an accident on both sides but my question remained. is there a shred of evidence it was racially motivated since it’s getting lumped in with BLM

That's not what I said. The responsibility for the entire ordeal falls squarely, and solely, on the police. It was not "on both sides". It is not an accident, nor in any way inappropriate, for a man to defend his woman from illegal armed intruders. So the boyfriend made no mistakes at all, and committed no crimes.

You seem to be attempting to put forth a narrative that the boyfriend somehow made a mistake. Probably in some misguided attempt to support the police in this incident. But you're not helping the cause of LEO's right now. You're actually doing enormous harm to it. When you make mistakes you admit it, you hold people accountable, and then you fix the issues that lead to the mistake. That inspires confidence. The response of you and the Louisville PD and court system inspires not only lack of trust and lack of confidence, but also widespread animosity.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#243
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me that reads as they’d send enough personnel to flood an area such that it would deter people from the worst aspects we’ve seen while allowing non violent protests. So any troublemakers would think twice about trying to hit an area to sew chaos (looting, rioting, setting property on fire, etc.)

When people talk about "overwhelming force" in military context, it's always lethal force.

When the national guard is sent in there it’s there to maintain order.

Militaries are also trained for peacekeeping missions. It’s not all about trigger happy gun toters.

If it’s an all out rebellion that’s different. I don’t see a ruby ridge or Waco incident coming, but maybe you do.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#244
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask why? I assume this is because many people think it is better that a left-leaning newspaper doesn't publish right-wing opinion pieces, but I would think that this creates a "bubble" and prevents readers from challenging their own opinions. A reduced version of this question would be: if Hitler/Xi/Kim were to publish an opinion piece in NYT, should they reject it or should they publish it?

"A US Senator thinks we should deploy the military domestically to murder protestors" is pretty important news that the NYT should be covering, and I think there's a fair argument for publishing the piece as part of that coverage. That isn't what the NYT did though; they dropped it as an opinion piece that they implicitly endorsed. Newspapers fairly regularly print opinion pieces that run contrary to the normal bias…

That is not what it said at all.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

News agencies shouldn't report that because the Senator didn't say that. He made it very clear he was talking about rioters and looters, not protestors: > Those excuses are built on a revolting moral equivalence of rioters and looters to peaceful, law-abiding protesters. A majority who seek to protest peacefully shouldn’t be confused with bands of miscreants. And nowhere in the op-ed did he call for murdering or kill…

> He made it very clear he was talking about rioters and looters, not protestors People actually killing protesters always, without fail, claim to be trying to stop "rioters and looters". This is not a phrase to be taken at face value, ever.

Yes it is. We can’t make up things that people did not say and get mad at them for it. That’s absurd.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#246
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's classical case where there is enough evidence for a wrongful death civil lawsuit (which will typically end with a 5-10 million dollars settlement), but there is not enough evidence to convict the officers (or the boyfriend) of a crime in a criminal case.

Qualified immunity would probably make that civil lawsuit much more difficult.

Qualified immunity only stops people from suing the individual police officers, and they don't even have enough money to pay out multi-million dollar settlements anyway. The big payouts come from suing the police department itself as an instituation and as I understand it they aren't protected by qualified immunity.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the whole "Somebody Else's Problem" field that bureaucracy generates. Same thing happens in pretty much any large gathering of people: "I only signed off on blah, nobody told me foo and bar would happen". "We only did foo because someone signed off on blah, we had approval it's not our fault". And round and round we go pointing fingers at each other rather than improving the world for anyone.

I think you’re right. But I also think that things might get a little better if we shone a light on the judges who are allowing these things to happen. They are supposed to judge, not be rubber stamps for whatever the police want. For example, the media will tell us the names of the cops who murder people when executing a warrant, as they should; but I don’t remember a single article where the judge who signed the wa…

I agree with you, all parts of the machine need some daylight.

I wonder how much this is due to sheer volume of warrants and policing actions?

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#248
post #206

I recently led the project completely rewriting the incident reporting system for one of the top 3 (by size) police departments in the country. This report wouldn't have even come close to passing client-side (or server-side for that matter) validations upon submission. An incident classified as a death with no medical information submitted? Usually the systems have some basic checks in place to ensure that, for exam…

The nearly blank narrative is listed under the header “public narrative”. Many departments use this to separate out the actual narrative from what can be immediately provided to the public (often just a sentence or two). So, there’s a possibility the full narrative was withheld as it’s an active investigation.

It’s also not uncommon practice for initial report narratives to be somewhat anemic when the follow-up investigation is immediate. Homicides being a perfect example where, in many agencies, all the useful details beyond “found dead guy” are in the murder book (i.e. case notes) outside of RMS.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#249
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that on this page. I see "police killed at least 104 unarmed black people in 2015", and "unarmed black people were killed at 5x the rate of unarmed whites in 2015". So I think that makes around 125-130 unarmed people killed by police. [1] says that there were 1,134 people killed that year by police. 125/1134 = 11% [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-...

Next point under the 104 figure "36% of unarmed people killed by police were black in 2015" 36% is 104, 100% is 289

How can the 36% and the 5x numbers both be correct? I'm puzzled!!

Also that's still "only" 25% that are unarmed.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#250
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next point under the 104 figure "36% of unarmed people killed by police were black in 2015" 36% is 104, 100% is 289

How can the 36% and the 5x numbers both be correct? I'm puzzled!! Also that's still "only" 25% that are unarmed.

one is absolute numbers, other is per million.
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