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Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice

commoncog.com

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Re: Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice

#61

Misleading title: the thesis is more accurately “Tacit knowledge is why NDM methods are more useful than deliberate practice”. It also doesn't actually do much to explain that thesis, dismissing delivered practice with the quick an for shallowly-addressed claim that it only works in field with established pedagogy, which may be the case, but most of the fields that it dismisses deliberate practice for on this basis h…

> dismissing delivered practice with the quick an for shallowly-addressed claim that it only works in field with established pedagogy This is the actual definition of deliberate practice . As in, Ericsson explicitly says deliberate practice CAN ONLY exist in domains with a long tradition of pedagogical development. Go and read the original papers by Ericsson. Or the Cambridge Handbook of Expertise and Expert Performa…

I think there is room for nuance here. True deliberate practice is easiest to apply in those domains, but there are some lessons from Ericsson's work that can be applied using the NDM framework. I think the point that people miss often is that it is deliberate practice, not just practice. While we may not be able to practice like a potential chess grand master, we can deliberately challenge ourselves and look to learn from our mistakes. If you squint hard enough, some of what Klein writes about in "The Power of Intuition" seem like attempts to deliberately practice something in a field without that long tradition of pedagogical development (or fields that don't train for tacit knowledge). His paper with Peter Fadde, "Deliberate Performance" also talks about this. That said, you sometimes don't learn the right lessons, and if the situation changes too dramatically, all your tacit knowledge might work against you.

One tangent comment to go with this: One of Klein's occasional coauthors, Robert Hoffman, co-wrote a book on expert weather forecasters that I really liked. Weather is hard to predict, but one thing they found that what the best forecasters did was to look at the data before looking at what the computer models predicted. Once they had an idea of what they thought the weather might look like, they compared with the model. This kept their skills sharp and ensured that they continued to learn.

Re: Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice

#62
And explicit knowledge (that you can explain to others) is more important than tacit knowledge, if you're trying to coach or teach someone

Isiah Thomas was one of the best of all time, but was a disaster as a coach https://www.sbnation.com/2015/5/5/8553115/isiah-thomas-new-y...

Re: Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice

#63
post #13

So many amazing thoughts in this article that apply to the world of software engineering. If tacit knowledge is as important as the author makes out, then hiring "young guns" is always going to have a cost over hiring people that have done it before. As an older developer, that's interesting to me. A contrary point, however, is that maybe all businesses are new domains of exploration, so you might as well pay the che…

If tacit knowledge is not something you can get by reading, then training and mentoring is much better (dare I say vital!) than documenting it all in a wiki, or just making sure everything is done asynchronously in a well written pull request.

This is a weird thing to argue. Productivity could be something like [system-knowledge] X [tacit-knowledge-of-programming] so just tacit knowledge wouldn't get a team maximum productivity.

Altogether, it seems like what's tacit in programming or tacit in any complex domain is "how to integrate different complex and sometimes contradictory things". It's important but hardly important in a "you can discard everything else, this is the magic" sort of way.

Re: Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice

#64
"When I pushed these people on their judgments, they would try to explain in terms of principles or heuristics. But the more I pushed, the more exceptions and caveats and potential gotchas I unearthed."

It is a popular believe that being an expert on something doesn't mean you will be an expert on teaching that thing, but in this case it could also be that any number of implementations was possible, and the seniors had more clout or were more pushy.

Re: Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice

#65
post #62

And explicit knowledge (that you can explain to others) is more important than tacit knowledge, if you're trying to coach or teach someone Isiah Thomas was one of the best of all time, but was a disaster as a coach https://www.sbnation.com/2015/5/5/8553115/isiah-thomas-new-y...

[deleted]

Re: Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice

#66
post #62

And explicit knowledge (that you can explain to others) is more important than tacit knowledge, if you're trying to coach or teach someone Isiah Thomas was one of the best of all time, but was a disaster as a coach https://www.sbnation.com/2015/5/5/8553115/isiah-thomas-new-y...

I don't think "knowledge that can't be put into words" is a good final definition of the skills that allow people to achieve excellence. It's an OK "first order approximation" but when it implies "nothing you can say will be useful", it seems more like a hindrance than an insight.

I've studied martial arts and body work. Naturally, many of the skills involved are taught hands-on rather than through a verbally specified sequence of actions. And it's definitely true that balance or an effective stance can't be taught by just sequences of positive commands ("stand straight, chin out" or whatever). However, high level (or more effective) skills can be taught through a combination of hands-on direction and verbal direction telling the student to "explore", to "relax", to "be aware" - these verbal direction represent internal, non-verbal processes ("balance centers", etc) and tells the student to yield to these. That yielding lets these processes get the skill and knowing how to so yield lets the skill be available. It's not avoidable verbal but it's not a simple rationalistic recipe.

Re: Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice

#67
Most of my software design is "wordless." Part of it is because I have a brain that is wired a bit "funny." I'm sort of "on the spectrum," and get into a "fugue" when I code.

In fact, after coming out of the "fugue," I can have trouble with verbal articulation.

But when I am in the "fugue," I can actually design a pretty intense system, without writing down a thing.

Re: Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice

#69
post #62

And explicit knowledge (that you can explain to others) is more important than tacit knowledge, if you're trying to coach or teach someone Isiah Thomas was one of the best of all time, but was a disaster as a coach https://www.sbnation.com/2015/5/5/8553115/isiah-thomas-new-y...

I don't think so. People only listen to people they admire, they don't listen to people they do not.

If nobody listens and respect you you can't be a good coach. This happened in Real Madrid with a coach that had been a mediocre player. The "top of the world starts" did not listen to this person because they did not admire or respected him.

In Rocky the film for example you see as Rocky gives an advice to a kid, before he is famous. The kid does not listen because "Who are you? A loser".

This could happen even if the person is a master, because of envy. I remember a man that was very successful with women, and wanting honestly to help others do the same, only to being rejected by others because they felt threatened or envied him so much.

I see this every day, when someone who is successful at something because he does something better than others. But others do not admit that this person is better creating rationalizations like "this person is so lucky", and then they will generalize even further "all success is luck", when they could not get it.

I know because I have learned a lot from those people and in some ways replicated their success. The only thing I needed to do was admiring that they were better than me at something, being humble at first, and that looks easy but it is very hard because it goes against your ego.

I took a skiing lesson from a master and he looked at me skiing and made me practice basic sky lessons: the kind novices take.

I remember thinking: WTF! I already know how to ski well!! But I forced myself into listening and doing exactly what he told me, even when it looked ridiculous and made no sense.

My skiing improved radically because of that.

Re: Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice

#70
This is interesting. Wittgenstein argues that this idea of 'tacit knowledge' has no meaning. What the article describes is practice.

'My point is that their explanations would not lead me to the same ability that they had.' is a very Wittgensteinian thing to say. See i.e. the parable of the wayward pupil in the Investigations on what role understanding/practice even play in the context of a statement like 'would not lead me to the same ability that they had'

'But the more I pushed, the more exceptions and caveats and potential gotchas I unearthed.' W argues that this is a result of our concept of what it means to understand. Can you name an idea where this doesn't hold? W uses a great example of your knowledge of the Natural Numbers. Just because you hadn't thought of the number 10324 beforehand, does that mean your knowledge didn't encompass it? Before you attempt to foist the problem onto mathematical logic (it doesn't work, but the answers become longer than an HN comment) consider your concept of the color 'red'. What shape is it? Did you a prior have in your mind the shape of red? Is there a color that I could show you which you might consider red and someone else would not?

The core problem is this idea that 'explanations' in the source are implicitly able to be fully specified or that any knowledge exists without practice. See i.e. W's theory of language for a mind blowing explanation.

I think the real question I would pose to the author is, what knowledge do you think qualifies as 'explicit'? I think you will find your answers supremely unsatisfying. If you don't, try Kripke's 'Wittgenstein's Paradox' and Goldfarb's (admittedly much more dense) 'Rule Following'

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