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Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

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Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#171

Post by im3w1l »

DecoPerson wrote: post #66

I grew up believing having thick skin was really important. I took this to heart, and now nothing phases me (and I’ve been in a variety of nasty situations that confirmed this). I realize this is not the norm, but I wish it was. Avoiding trigger words and peoples’ sensitivities is frustrating and further complicates complex discussions. I’m not saying we should be robots. I still have feelings. If someone I love show…

I don't think this is about being offensive or sensitivity. From the subordinates perspective, a joke about being fired could be a way of telling them that they are underperforming. Or it could be a false alarm.

It is perfectly rational for them to spend a huge amount of effort thinking and worrying about where they stand. If you say you wouldn't, then you are the one making a mistake. So in conclusion, making the joke imposes a big effort and burden on the target.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#172

Post by throwanem »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #134
kemiller2002 wrote: post #3

This is sound advice. You have a significant amount of control over people's lives as a manager, and that should be treated with a level of respect. You have no idea how people feel, and it is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you. At times that is more than enough to cause them stress and even convince them to look elsewhere. Work is stressful enough, and you don't need to add…

Agreed. Long time ago I had a manager, who was using his firing history as a motivational tool. He would walk somewhere behind you and tell someone else a story that was supposed to partially mirror a story about you. Very subtle. He also loved bad jokes, but he was smart enough not to joke about firing people.

There's nothing subtle about that kind of behavior. Contemptible, yes, but not subtle.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#173

Post by bcrosby95 »

jasonlotito wrote: post #140
mc32 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were manager I would not even imply that I’m time aware either way, unless there is an ongoing issue (someone staying too late often), (or someone who is not putting in an effort). Otherwise why even bring up your consciousness of time? It signals you’re tracking it one way or another. Edit: for addressing burnout, overwork, etc., for me personally I would start with bringing up the issue in team meetings. Do we…

I'm a manager. Why bring this up? To watch for people working too much and potential burn out. If people are working excessively, that's not good for them or the company. I want to be able to rely on people. That means knowing how much they can do. This means if they are putting in extra hours now, I come to expect that level of output from them. This is not fair to them, and not fair for the company. I don't want th…

Yeah, this reminds me of when I first got out of college: I worked at a small company and I never took vacations. After a couple years of never taking a vacation day, the owner started 'forcing' me to take vacations by paying for hotel and airfare to anywhere I wanted.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#174

Post by vvanders »

Oh haha, memories.

We had a co-founder who pulled an "April 2nd" joke about 1/3 of the team being let go because of a non-poaching agreement between their old publisher and the studio. Kept it going for about 15 minutes until he finally let on that it was a joke.

They got him back pretty good, stuck an annoy-a-tron in his office for ~6 months. We'd all deny hearing it when it chirped in meetings or during standup.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#176

Post by sudhirj »

undefined1 wrote: post #144
sudhirj wrote: post #24

The basic rule of comedy, or making jokes, which is amateur comedy, is that you always punch up. It’s funny when you say “ha! you’re fired!” to your boss, but never when you say it to someone you can actually fire. Same reason why parents (should) never joke about punishment or disciplinary action with their kids - when you have power and authority you also have a responsibility not to belittle it. People will take y…

I know you're specifying amateur comedy, but it's not so clear what's up or down. A lot of people think Dave Chappelle punches down, but is he really?[1] "Comedy is subjective, and it's offensive, it really is. And people are making these imaginary rules, like, 'Comedy can punch up, but it can't punch down.' No, comedy punches down too sometimes, sorry. You don't make up the rules for my business without consulting a…

This gets interesting, especially with Dave Chapelle, but professional comedians like Dave and Seinfeld etc. have one very specific attribute that allows them to punch up, sideways and even down – everyone always knows they're joking (sometimes even when they're not). And comedians have no power of their own, so they can speak truth to power as much as they want.

The problem is only when someone with power punches down, unlike a professional comedian (who has no power over the group s/he's punching at). That's fine, we can all laugh at ourselves.

There's also a problem with punching down when you're not a professional comedian, because now nobody knows you're joking. If you try this, you'll sound racist/classist/sexist/elitist.

The rules about comedy don't apply to professional comedians, because you know if they break them they're still trying to funny. Just like if a beginner plays a bad note on a piano, it's a novice mistake, but if a master does it it's dissonance that shakes your soul.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#177

Post by mjayhn »

Non24Throw wrote: post #143

Early in my career, a manager once had me repeat to him that I would be terminated if I failed to do X, like I was a 5-year-old. X was referring to a technical implementation detail that he had zero understanding of. He read something in a blog post I guess. My reaction was to act like it was a fun joke or something. But inside, I absolutely loathed him every second of every day until I quit, and now I take great sat…

> To expand on the article’s point, I think the biggest thing young managers don’t understand is that people are going to be insincere to you as a basic showing of respect and a basic desire for career preservation. They’re going to smile and appear to enjoy you and laugh at your jokes and seem ok with everything, much moreso than they otherwise would.

I know it's hard and it took me until my 30s with a long career behind me but I really wish people would be more vocal about their issues to their managers, even if it's about their management style or them burning people out, etc. There is a huge chance that you're not the only one with those feelings and there might be people newer to the team or career that are afraid of speaking up for things that they really truly disagree with, or just the people who get anxious with confrontation.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#179

Post by TheBlight »

momokoko wrote: post #141
kemiller2002 wrote: post #3

This is sound advice. You have a significant amount of control over people's lives as a manager, and that should be treated with a level of respect. You have no idea how people feel, and it is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you. At times that is more than enough to cause them stress and even convince them to look elsewhere. Work is stressful enough, and you don't need to add…

> is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you Higher level performers tend to disproportionately believe then need to improve so they tend to take group jokes or threats of termination much more seriously than underperformers. Be very very careful making groups statements and jokes about performance and firings. It’s a fast track to losing high performers who leave because they st…

Do you have a citation for this phenomenon you claim wrt higher level performers?

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#180

Post by empath75 »

subhro wrote: post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

If my previous manager had made a joke like that, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. We had a great relationship inside and outside of work and my job was very secure. If my current manager did, it would make me nervous -- i'm new to the team and I don't know him that well. It's all about context.
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