Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it’s a bit early to declare Linux’s market victory here. The obvious thing for Google to do is to use this in Android, and this will solve a number of big problems for them (specifically, binary-only drivers and a better security model). They might even have some success in the server or desktop spaces as well. I worry a bit that Linux will be the next Firefox.
>binary-only drivers If by this you're referring to their promises of a stable driver ABI, I can't understand what problem this is supposed to solve compared to Linux. There are plenty of binary drivers already shipped on Linux. IOT device vendors don't care about a stable ABI because they just pin to their kernel version. Android device vendors don't care because either way they will stop updating their kernels afte…
Playing around with the Fuchsia operating system
211–220 of 285 posts
Re: Playing around with the Fuchsia operating system
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
All of Chrome OS is open.
Can you point us to the source code for verified boot? How about auto-update?
Re: Playing around with the Fuchsia operating system
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
All of Chrome OS is open.
Can you point us to the source code for verified boot? How about auto-update?
Here is a talk on verified boot - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdpZC9jFzZA&feature=emb_logo
https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/ All associated projects - "uboot", "update_engine" are there. Some are also in platform2/.
Let me guess ? You"ll come up with some other snark to put down how this OS is open source.
Re: Playing around with the Fuchsia operating system
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
Samsung has 20% of the market and a lot more of the high end market. Going with "not Google" means a lot of users no longer using Google Play Store and services. It most certainly would "affect" Google. It’s a game of chicken and one Samsung can’t win, but Google probably doesn’t want to inflict on them. Look at how well Huawei is doing outside China without google services (they’re dead in the water). Samsung doesn’…
> It’s a game of chicken and one Samsung can’t win Indeed, they most likely can't (easily) make Tizen a commercial success to rival Android, and even using an Android fork would still be far from ideal without Google's Play Services. But Google probably can't legally sustain this position for long and hold OEMs hostage, especially with all the antitrust scrutiny they are facing now. Conditioning access to the Play Se…
Re: Playing around with the Fuchsia operating system
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you mean Chrome OS? Google is a web company; they want people to use the web. They made a laptop/desktop operating system built around their web browser, because they want everything to be on the web. It does most of the things you list, including synchronizing between devices since your data is all "in the Cloud". As for market share, I'm not sure what power you think Google has, but getting 10% of the desktop OS…
Do you mean Chromium OS? Chrome OS is not 100% open source and the bits that are not in Chromium OS are significant. It is also effectively tied to certain hardware. Users cannot easily install it on whatever hardware they choose. The Chromium OS FAQ contains no link to download the source code and contains this little gem: "Keep in mind that Chromium OS is not for general consumer use." https://www.chromium.org/chro…
"The Chromium OS FAQ contains no link to download the source code" -
https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/d...
LOL a whole guide "secretly hidden" on the Internet, to get and build the source code.
Right above that line -
"Where can I download Chromium OS? If you are the kind of developer who likes to build an open source operating system from scratch, you can follow the developer instructions to check out Chromium OS, build it and experiment with it. A number of sites have also posted pre-built binaries of Chromium OS. However, these downloads are not verified by Google, therefore please ensure you trust the site you are downloading these from."
Re: Playing around with the Fuchsia operating system
#216I'm more excited about the possibility of a high quality desktop OS rather than the kernel. The Linux kernel is great but a great open-source desktop OS doesn't exist today. Specifically, this product doesn't exist today: - Desktop environment that matches or surpasses Mac OS in quality, performance and UX design. - It includes seamless synchronization between devices. - Apps are sandboxed, similarly to Android or iO…
Sandboxing in Linux is developing with both Snaps and Flatpaks. Linux really does miss an SDK though. Realistically if you target Ubuntu you'll reach the majority of Linux users but the community of power users (ugh, hate that phrase but can't think of a better one) and developers is scattered any number of desktops and Linux varients.
I am not sure what you are talking about.
Re: Playing around with the Fuchsia operating system
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the missing golden keystone w/in the "UX design" category is the physical touchpad quality and its driver. The mac touchpad that is so accurate, responsive/sensitive, jitter-free/steady, and effortless that I've yet to come across the like in Windows or *.nix land. I would more than love to be proved wrong in this thread!
I agree. I'm not sure why the mac touchpad is so far and away better than everything else. Touch screen and gestures are just as good on android phones as apple phones. Idk
Re: Playing around with the Fuchsia operating system
#218I fully welcome some more competiton on the operating system front. I am sad to see WindowsNT, Linux and macOS be the only dominant operating systems. My personal very perhaps unpopular view is that Windows NT has a better technial implentation than Linux. Linux does most things well, form small devices to big iron. That is true now. But when it started, it was as a learning experiment, and damn good one too. An amaz…
About the NT Kernel I'm just gonna repost what was said several years ago by someone who worked on it: >I'm a developer in Windows and contribute to the NT kernel. (Proof: the SHA1 hash of revision #102 of [Edit: filename redacted] is [Edit: hash redacted].) I'm posting through Tor for obvious reasons. > >Windows is indeed slower than other operating systems in many scenarios, and the gap is worsening. The cause of t…
> I'm a developer in Windows and contribute to the NT kernel. (Proof: the SHA1 hash of revision #102 of [Edit: filename redacted] is [Edit: hash redacted].) I'm posting through Tor for obvious reasons.
> Windows is indeed slower than other operating systems in many scenarios, and the gap is worsening. The cause of the problem is social. There's almost none of the improvement for its own sake, for the sake of glory, that you see in the Linux world.
> Granted, occasionally one sees naive people try to make things better. These people almost always fail. We can and do improve performance for specific scenarios that people with the ability to allocate resources believe impact business goals, but this work is Sisyphean. There's no formal or informal program of systemic performance improvement. We started caring about security because pre-SP3 Windows XP was an existential threat to the business. Our low performance is not an existential threat to the business.
> See, component owners are generally openly hostile to outside patches: if you're a dev, accepting an outside patch makes your lead angry (due to the need to maintain this patch and to justify in in shiproom the unplanned design change), makes test angry (because test is on the hook for making sure the change doesn't break anything, and you just made work for them), and PM is angry (due to the schedule implications of code churn). There's just no incentive to accept changes from outside your own team. You can always find a reason to say "no", and you have very little incentive to say "yes".
> There's also little incentive to create changes in the first place. On linux-kernel, if you improve the performance of directory traversal by a consistent 5%, you're praised and thanked. Here, if you do that and you're not on the object manager team, then even if you do get your code past the Ob owners and into the tree, your own management doesn't care. Yes, making a massive improvement will get you noticed by senior people and could be a boon for your career, but the improvement has to be very large to attract that kind of attention. Incremental improvements just annoy people and are, at best, neutral for your career. If you're unlucky and you tell your lead about how you improved performance of some other component on the system, he'll just ask you whether you can accelerate your bug glide.
> Is it any wonder that people stop trying to do unplanned work after a little while?
> Another reason for the quality gap is that that we've been having trouble keeping talented people. Google and other large Seattle-area companies keep poaching our best, most experienced developers, and we hire youths straight from college to replace them. You find SDEs and SDE IIs maintaining hugely import systems. These developers mean well and are usually adequately intelligent, but they don't understand why certain decisions were made, don't have a thorough understanding of the intricate details of how their systems work, and most importantly, don't want to change anything that already works.
> These junior developers also have a tendency to make improvements to the system by implementing brand-new features instead of improving old ones. Look at recent Microsoft releases: we don't fix old features, but accrete new ones. New features help much more at review time than improvements to old ones.
> (That's literally the explanation for PowerShell. Many of us wanted to improve cmd.exe, but couldn't.)
> More examples:
> * We can't touch named pipes. Let's add %INTERNAL_NOTIFICATION_SYSTEM%! And let's make it inconsistent with virtually every other named NT primitive.
> * We can't expose %INTERNAL_NOTIFICATION_SYSTEM% to the rest of the world because we don't want to fill out paperwork and we're not losing sales because we only have 1990s-era Win32 APIs available publicly.
> * We can't touch DCOM. So we create another %C#_REMOTING_FLAVOR_OF_THE_WEEK%!
> * XNA. Need I say more?
> * Why would anyone need an archive format that supports files larger than 2GB?
> * Let's support symbolic links, but make sure that nobody can use them so we don't get blamed for security vulnerabilities (Great! Now we get to look sage and responsible!)
> * We can't touch Source Depot, so let's hack together SDX!
> * We can't touch SDX, so let's pretend for four releases that we're moving to TFS while not actually changing anything!
> * Oh god, the NTFS code is a purple opium-fueled Victorian horror novel that uses global recursive locks and SEH for flow control. Let's write ReFs instead. (And hey, let's start by copying and pasting the NTFS source code and removing half the features! Then let's add checksums, because checksums are cool, right, and now with checksums we're just as good as ZFS? Right? And who needs quotas anyway?)
> * We just can't be fucked to implement C11 support, and variadic templates were just too hard to implement in a year. (But ohmygosh we turned "^" into a reference-counted pointer operator. Oh, and what's a reference cycle?)
Re: Playing around with the Fuchsia operating system
#219Re: Playing around with the Fuchsia operating system
#220I'm more excited about the possibility of a high quality desktop OS rather than the kernel. The Linux kernel is great but a great open-source desktop OS doesn't exist today. Specifically, this product doesn't exist today: - Desktop environment that matches or surpasses Mac OS in quality, performance and UX design. - It includes seamless synchronization between devices. - Apps are sandboxed, similarly to Android or iO…
If something works in your Android dev environment, it is absolutely not guaranteed to work everywhere, or work the same everywhere. Differences exist between vendors, and every between different models by the same vendor.