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If you see the cops, start recording

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Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#261

Post by craftinator »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #195
craftinator wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a police officer is a very high paying job for someone without an education. With overtime, the average pay in many departments is over $100k. For people without an education, who get a massive amount of job perks. The problem is that the job has too much power, which attracts violent, power hungry individuals. Take away their power, and you'll have a police force that desires to make their community a better p…

So we don’t even need to to pay more. Just better management, training and accountability.

I agree with this! I have a hard time wanting to pay the police force more, because it not only attracts those who are overachievers, it attracts people who see it as the easiest way to make the most money. Why get an engineering degree or a business degree when I can just be a cop, carry a cool gun, and not have to pay speeding tickets? I think accountability is the single most needed thing; qualified immunity corrupts those qualified by it's protection.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#262

Post by craftinator »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #229
craftinator wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, well in this case, this cop acted violently and aggressively towards a senior citizen, who was killed through that cop's action. Not murder, but definitely manslaughter. If you did that to someone, that's what you would be going to jail for, and rightly so.

Not at all excusing what happened, but was he actually killed? I thought he was taken to a hospital and recovered?

I apologise, I initially read that he had been killed, later followed up on the article and they had posted a correction that he "easily could have been killed". You are correct!

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#263

Post by craftinator »

chrisco255 wrote: post #21
cwkoss wrote: post #6

I think half of the police force should be 'armed' with nothing more than cameras. Arrests are not necessary in the vast majority of situations police are called for, and recording technology is far superior to verbal testimony for serving our courts

Cops carry guns because the situation can always get out of hand. Violent criminals still exist in society. EDIT: the ignorant people claiming average police officer does not deal with violent criminals have obviously never worked as a first responder. They deal with rape, suicide, murder, assault, domestic abuse, robbery, every week unless they're some small town cop in a gilded neighborhood. The cops in St. Louis,…

> I would never support female cops without firearms, for example. A grown man can easily overpower any woman, period. Especially when they are tweaked out on drugs.

Uhhhhh, damn dude. Words kinda fail me here. As a male Marine, with several years practice in BJJ, I find your comment either offensive, or just plain stupid. I've had my ass kicked many, many times by female Marines. I had several MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Art Program) trainers who were female. For that job, you are required to win at full contact hand to hand combat with people bigger and stronger than you. Your comment is sexist for one, and ignorant for another. I have a few female friends who've read your comment, and would like to have a friendly roll with you, if you are game.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#264

Post by dependenttypes »

dependenttypes wrote: post #237
chrisco255 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cops carry guns because the situation can always get out of hand. Violent criminals still exist in society. EDIT: the ignorant people claiming average police officer does not deal with violent criminals have obviously never worked as a first responder. They deal with rape, suicide, murder, assault, domestic abuse, robbery, every week unless they're some small town cop in a gilded neighborhood. The cops in St. Louis,…

> suicide Is this supposed to be a violent crime now? Cops should not even deal with the police.

> Cops should not even deal with the police.

Sorry, I meant that this should not be something that the police deals with.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#265

Post by pontifier »

eloisant wrote: post #123
rectang wrote: post #9

> But before action was taken by city leaders, Buffalo police lied about the incident. In an initial statement, the department said that a person was arrested "during a skirmish with other protesters," and that "during that skirmish involving protesters, one person was injured when he tripped and fell." The video clearly refutes the statement, showing that there was no skirmish around the elderly man, and that the of…

There is one "almost good cop" who tried to check the man when he was lying on the ground, but quickly one of his colleague pulled him by the vest to tell him they don't do this kind of thing. Unfortunately he didn't have to courage to stand up for his first feeling.

If you watch more closely you'll see that this "almost good cop" shoved Gugino very hard, and is probably the reason he fell. This officer was holding his baton in both hands, and pushed both arms forward quickly just as the officer that "pulled him by the vest" braced him from behind for a very forceful shove. This happened at the exact same time the foreground officer straight-armed Gugino.

That combination would probably knock most people off their feet.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#266

Post by oaue0823 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #88
oaue0823 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but it's a pretty hard job and mistakes are unavoidable just like with any job. I'm pretty fine here, when I make a code mistake I can fix it, and I'm paid so much more than a cop. I suppose that would be a good reason for me to bitch about cops in general right ? At least, that's what it seems when I read comments on hn the last days.

These are not "mistakes". The police are unwilling to disambiguate between peaceful protesters and looters. I live in NYC, where looting has largely stopped and every single protest I've been to has been peaceful — yet police begin indiscriminately assaulting protesters as soon as curfew ends, and threatening reporters who dare document it.

You're saying that the police doesn't need to be that aggressive because the loots have stopped.

What makes you so sure that the loots haven't actually stopped because the police takes an aggressive stand ?

They are doing their job, now the results will have to show durability before someone changes their orders.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#267

Post by hkai »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #258
chrisco255 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I come from a family of first responders. Paramedics, firefighters and cops. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/12/27/police-deaths... 144 died in 2018. 96 already in 2020 and we're not half done. https://www.odmp.org/search/year 986 citizens, of which 47 were un-armed. Twisting stats to feed your narrative won't change reality. They're only vanishingly rare in the least dangerous neighborhoods, which incid…

> 986 citizens, of which 47 were un-armed. Twisting stats to feed your narrative won't change reality. This argument baffles me. Do the Second and Fifth Amendments not exist? Possessing a firearm is not grounds for summary execution.

Come on, don't twist the facts. We can do better than that.

Today I received an email from Coursera advocating for a black transgender man who was "executed". Or, as it turned out, he killed a person and then pointed a gun at the police. Before that, he also posted his intentions on Facebook. Is that your hero?

Second amendment allows you to carry a weapon. You will be shot immediately when you point a gun at the police. Both statements are true and are not going to change. They do not contradict each other.

Which part of that do you disagree with?

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#268

Post by jakelazaroff »

hkai wrote: post #267
jakelazaroff wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 986 citizens, of which 47 were un-armed. Twisting stats to feed your narrative won't change reality. This argument baffles me. Do the Second and Fifth Amendments not exist? Possessing a firearm is not grounds for summary execution.

Come on, don't twist the facts. We can do better than that. Today I received an email from Coursera advocating for a black transgender man who was "executed". Or, as it turned out, he killed a person and then pointed a gun at the police. Before that, he also posted his intentions on Facebook. Is that your hero? Second amendment allows you to carry a weapon. You will be shot immediately when you point a gun at the pol…

You think that in every single one of the 939 remaining cases in which the victims were armed, they were using their weapons to threaten the police? I find it far more likely that in many of those cases, officers were unwilling to accept the risk that ostensibly comes with the job and simply opened fire when they realized the victim was armed. We know this happens; see for example Philando Castile.

By black trans man, I assume you’re referring to Tony McDade. The only account of his killing so far has come from the police themselves, who avoid accountability like the plague, so let’s begin by taking that with a massive shaker of salt.

But even if their account is true, the ideal outcome would have been for him to be arrested alive. Why is it too much to ask police to attempt to deescalate the situation before resorting to lethal force?

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#269

Post by thelean12 »

deleted_account wrote: post #250
thelean12 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you truly think that there are zero cases where a police officer firing a gun is justified?

My dude, that ain’t even remotely why people are out in the streets. You’re sitting on the sidelines confused why everyone is shouting.

I have no idea what you're saying with this comment.

I said that we should take actions that have been shown to improve the situation. 8canwait.org goes over many of them, and I'm sure there are lots of other actions we can take as well.

Zero is impossible without a perfect populous. It is the enemy of 8canwait (and I know, it was created by people who think zero is possible).

Someone saying "zero is possible" makes it seem like they don't understand the situation enough to have a real conversation about it.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#270

Post by deleted_account »

thelean12 wrote: post #269
deleted_account wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dude, that ain’t even remotely why people are out in the streets. You’re sitting on the sidelines confused why everyone is shouting.

I have no idea what you're saying with this comment. I said that we should take actions that have been shown to improve the situation. 8canwait.org goes over many of them, and I'm sure there are lots of other actions we can take as well. Zero is impossible without a perfect populous. It is the enemy of 8canwait (and I know, it was created by people who think zero is possible). Someone saying "zero is possible" makes…

Explicit in your original question "Why do so many people need to be so extreme?" is the presumption that standing against police brutality is an extreme position to have. It preserves the status quo. It preserves a world where literal Nazis are accepted as "very fine people".

To answer your question directly, to address systemic racism in America we need to shift the Overton window of discourse. That _requires_ dissemination of values and ideas which many consider radical or unthinkable.

Beyond that, to say someone is dumb and naive because they don't think cops should be allowed to kill people is callous and ignorant when you consider blacks are three times more likely to be killed by police than whites. [https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/]

"Zero is impossible" is implicitly saying, "Cops should be allowed to kill people." Easy to say when it's not your community in the crosshairs.

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