Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conceivably, you could do some sort of analysis on how much systemic racism has an impact on black lives as a measure of year of life lost, etc. But you'd also have to do the same for the 3 months they've taken from everyone else due to lockdowns. Until they do that sort of thing, its politics not a social science.
I mean, the idea is also that the 3 month lockdowns themselves have hard numbers behind them. From what I understand economists have themselves already modeled out the effect of covid-19 without a lockdown and found a lockdown is still more economically beneficial.
America is giving up on the pandemic?
931–940 of 1001 posts
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#932Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sweden did screw up the retirement home situation somewhat, but in terms of excess deaths all Nordic countries look identical. Finland, notably, doesn't even count covid deaths outside hospitals according to the THL, so comparing Swedish and Finnish covid stats is a bit silly. The Swedish catastrophe is always another 2 weeks away, and secondary effects of a lockdown (like delaying non-critical medical procedures and…
I think Sweden’s strategy is on the bad end of the spectrum and Taiwan and South Korea’s on the great end. I don’t anticipate any more catastrophe for them than their relative peers in the bad response group, but they did do quite bad compared to liberal democracies in SE Asia. Taiwan has had 11 deaths and South Korea about 300. Sweden has about 4700.
This coronavirus hasn't made in a big impact anywhere in SE Asia, even though countries responded in very different ways. This suggests that the virus doesn't take hold for a different reason, e.g. pre-existing immunity.
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#933Earlier quoted context omitted.
i don’t think we’ll know what worked or didn’t for years from now. regardless of what even they say. it could be we just delayed deaths that will happen eventually anyway while commuting economic seppuku
One ting everybod gnores right now regardign experts is, that this a novel virus. We don't have any prior exerience or knowledge about it. Wich means incomplete data and potentially wrong data from day one. Making decissions in such cirumstances is incredibly difficult, and I expect every expert to change his mind when the data changes. Does that potential confuse people? Yes. Are experts always right? No. Are they s…
and now this whole thing about staying silent about the race riots because they support them even though they’re likely to cause a second wave
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#934Earlier quoted context omitted.
At least in Munich, the latest protests are around a time everything is opening up again anyways. The anti-lockdown protest happened, more or less, during the hight of the lockdown. So totally different circumstances.
The one where police stopped us from going grocery shopping was exactly one week before, so it's not that far back. It's still not allowed to have mass protests, no matter the cause.
All assemblies have to be registered upfront, regardless of COVID-19. SO if the assembly isn't permited, police will break it up. Happened more than once in the last weeks, didn't it? So I doubt your last point.
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#935Earlier quoted context omitted.
5 Plain clothed police officers break into your house and execute your wife or daughter in their bed, then say it was a mistake and walk away scott-free (no charges)... Would you stay quiet and wait for the covid threat to die down before protesting or taking action?
>Would you stay quiet and wait for the covid threat to die down before protesting or taking action? Absolutely. The only reason you'd ignore a pandemic and risk your life (and the lives of your friends and remaining family) is an expected and completely valid emotional response. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do (or safe), though. I wouldn't risk being directly responsible for killing more people (especial…
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#936Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who do you trust instead? Seriously asking, because dismissing somethig is always the easy part. Regarding the masks, I went deepy down that rabbit hole in February and March. Most production happens in China. China didn't produce anything, needed what was there for themselves and had closed down a lot cities and ports and such. At the same time, demand increased by orders of magnitude around the world. hence the sho…
I did say I trust the KCDC, didn't I? And also the CDC and RKI can obviously do some good work, but they completely failed to set the story straight on masks and aerosol transmission while over-emphasizing the fomite transmission and hand washing. So at least on those topics they've lost credibility. I don't know if China needed the masks, or if they needed to weld people in their apartments, but apparently they did…
The proble I have is, that now people accuse every institute or offical body of lying. Because they got, in people's minds, the mask thing wrong. Why can't we just accept that even experts can be wrong? Starting to accuse others of lying is the first step towards conspiracy theories, IMHO, as it only leaves black and white. And what is it that the WHO and co. have to be right 100% right from the start and everybody else is just asking questions?
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#937Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, white people in the US on average live 3.5 years longer than black people in the US.[1] Did you know that an even greater health/life expectancy disparity exists between men and women? One gender on average lives 5.1 years longer than the other.[2] >decreased access to medical care and healthy food, unsafe working conditions, mass incarceration, exposure to pollution and noise, and the toxic effects of stress…
To be perfectly upfront with my own beliefs, I believe economic disparities is the mother of all other disparities and that many of these statistics that show disparities in outcomes for whites vs blacks are just echos of that economic disparity. That, I think, is the core disparity and the core way in which "the system" oppresses people across generations. That being said, I don't think gender is a good counterpoint…
I agree my friend, thank you for the measured response.
>given that biology does have a significant role in some disparities in outcomes for men & women (for example life expectancy)
How do we know biology is the most significant factor that causes women to live longer than men?
How do we know biology is not a significant factor that causes white people to live longer than black people? It's a biological fact that black people in the US suffer greatly from vitamin D deficiency[1]
[1]https://www.cooperinstitute.org/2019/09/24/african-americans...
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#938Earlier quoted context omitted.
Their letter has a paragraph addressing some of their concerns: > White supremacy is a lethal public health issue that predates and contributes to COVID-19. Black people are twice as likely to be killed by police compared to white people, but the effects of racism are far more pervasive. Black people suffer from dramatic health disparities in life expectancy, maternal and infant mortality, chronic medical conditions,…
I realize you are just quoting the text, but this does not describe "black people". It describes poor people .
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#939Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Nobody on the far-left is advocating for the extreme violence I have seen many people talking about "burning the system to the ground".
I think that's a metaphor like they want to destroy systematic racism or prison industrial complex? But I haven't seen those posts. Anything public you wanna share?
Maybe we could consider it purely metaphorical, if there hadn't been a rash of arsons across the US in recent weeks.
Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?
#940Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with falsehoods is that by making and perpetuating them, you are undermining your own credibility. Yes, there are some who will think that maybe it was better to be lied to, but most will remember the fact that they were lied to. And some of those will believe that they were lied to because their life was discounted. The problem with lying is that your intent doesn’t matter, you still lied, and in a socie…
It's a trust problem more than anything else. If I trust the medical professionals, I may accept them lying for our own societal good. However, lots of people don't trust (various types of) "authority". And for them, the lie is further proof of their prior lack of trust. It's a hard problem, which has been made a lot worse by the politicising of masks, in particular. My own prior is that Asian people have been wearin…
It is one thing for us as laymen to discuss the efficacy of masks, staying at home, shutting down the economy, not partaking in the activities we used to enjoy and so on. It is an entirely different thing for a person in some kind of authority, like "public health", where your primary domain of expertise is communicable diseases to step out of their lane (which is communicable diseases) and say despite the supposedly high risk of death and bodily destruction that an apolitical virus with neither vices nor virtues nor policy positions can wreck, it is entirely okay to go out and protest something, but only if it is something that "we in authority" currently agree is worth protesting. This is, by the way, not long after the 9th Circuit said allowing Churches to reopen (even with limitations) would make the Constitution into a suicide pact.
People don't trust authority because authority doesn't want to stay in its own lane. Take Anthony Fauci, he has done a remarkable job staying out of the fray as much as possible and simply acting as an advisor to the President and to the people, and people trusted him even when they wanted to imagine their own politics on him. As a civil servant, absolute standout guy, and he's now considered one of the most trusted medical professionals in the country because he stays in his lane, meaning he allows his politics to take a backseat (not even the backseat, it's back in the trunk) to his job and Office (Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases).
Forgive me, I went on a small rant, but to conclude, when you have lying in the first instance and not staying in your lane in the second, one of the effects is going to be a loss of credibility, and that's both just and understandable. Choices have consequences, and that includes lying, and that includes using your unelected Office for activist purposes. Even when you're right about something, up to and including the efficacy of masks, you've already lost credibility, and in the case of masks, you've already directly contradicted yourself. (I mean "you" as in public health officials recently, not you specifically my fellow HN).