America is giving up on the pandemic? • Hacker News Board

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#871

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 10:13 AM UTC

seer wrote: post #745

missedthecue wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To what do attribute the difference between US and UK police deaths? Do you think police brutality is the main factor?

In Europe in general police operate on the principle of “plice lives civilian lives” - e.g. shoot when threatened directly. Or it is acceptable to kill civilians to save police lives. In the long term that kind of doctrine is bound to have consequences on stats like deaths caused by the police, no matter how good / bad the intentions of individual officers are. And it frames how the public reacts to events as well. L…

[deleted]

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#872

Post by throwawayffffas » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 10:14 AM UTC

orange8 wrote: post #627

Animats wrote: post #304

Total deaths in US caused by police. (2019, full year): 1112 [1] Total deaths in US caused by coronavirus (last Friday, one day): 975 [2] [1] https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Comparing apples to apples: Average daily deaths in US caused by heart disease: 1800 Average daily deaths in US caused by cancer: 1600 Average daily deaths in US caused by corona virus: 1000 https://www.healthline.com/health/leading-causes-of-death Comparing oranges to oranges: Total deaths in US caused by homicide (2019): 19510 Total deaths in US caused by police (2019): 1112 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicid…

Comparing pears to pears:

Number of adults with diagnosed heart disease: 30.3 million [1]

People in the United States infected with corona virus: 1.9 million [2]

[1] https://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Health_Statistics/NCHS/NHIS/SHS/2018...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-c...

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#873

Post by MagnumOpus » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 10:18 AM UTC

wendyshu wrote: post #624

tobias3 wrote: post #115

We had large BLM demonstrations yesterday here in Germany. Demonstrators did not follow Corona virus rules (compared to e.g. fridays for future). If COVID-19 spreads in those circumstances (outside, mostly with masks, but close contact + chanting), this'll have been the last of those demonstrations here.

Are black people in Germany especially abused by the police?

There are few black people in Germany. They are racially profiled, probably just as much as middle-eastern looking people, but excessive police violence against them is rare, and usually properly investigated and punished.

In Germany, much of the ire around unpunished excess police force is around riot response squads who regularly use excessive force against leftist protests (anti-G20, anticapitalism/Occupy, anarchists), especially if some of the protesters turn to vandalism, start setting fires or attack the police.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#874

Post by AzzieElbab » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 10:19 AM UTC

drusepth wrote: post #509

xphilter wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What new rules specifically? And what rules were not in place for the armed all-white protests in Michigan, for instance?

For example, countries permitting residents to "gather in groups of 12", or "protest in groups of up to 100". For example, https://cchealth.org/press-releases/2020/0602-Businesses-Reo... Why create specialized rules for protests that allow an order of magnitude more people to gather than those allowed in a "close cohort" gathering?

Because 12 people is not a threat of you are a politician

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#875

Post by orange8 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 10:24 AM UTC

throwawayffffas wrote: post #872

orange8 wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing apples to apples: Average daily deaths in US caused by heart disease: 1800 Average daily deaths in US caused by cancer: 1600 Average daily deaths in US caused by corona virus: 1000 https://www.healthline.com/health/leading-causes-of-death Comparing oranges to oranges: Total deaths in US caused by homicide (2019): 19510 Total deaths in US caused by police (2019): 1112 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicid…

Comparing pears to pears: Number of adults with diagnosed heart disease: 30.3 million [1] People in the United States infected with corona virus: 1.9 million [2] [1] https://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Health_Statistics/NCHS/NHIS/SHS/2018... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-c...

Yes. Corona has a higher mortality rate than heart disease.

Those are just the kind of meaningful insights you get when you compare pears to pears, apples to apples or oranges to oranges.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#876

Post by teddyh » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 10:24 AM UTC

noad wrote: post #530

scarmig wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're being flagrantly irresponsible. If nothing else, messaging and public trust are key parts of any epidemic response. Right now, a conservative might look at this letter and come away with the impression that this is a case of quarantine for thee but not for me. An opinion that wouldn't be unjustified: can you imagine them doing the same thing to provide cover for abortion protests? The right to religious gathe…

Or maybe there are just bigger problems than the virus right now.

http://www.thewebcomicfactory.com/comic/the-antiwar-comic-ka...

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#877

Post by hef19898 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 10:26 AM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #365

wpietri wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weirdly, hundreds of people were wandering around state capitols with much more dangerous looking weapons, and no cop shot them on site. It's almost like going by "perceived threat" (as determined after the fact by cops) is a giant hole that allows racial bias free reign.

In Rice's case, police were responding to reports of shots fired in the vicinity. By comparison, the protestors in Michigan (presumably this is what you were referring to) were attending a planned protest in a state with legal open carry. While it's fair to say that bias was a factor in Rice's shooting, and I'd agree, pointing to open carry protests as evidence of this may not be the most effective line of argument.…

referring to legal open carry, California changed the gun laws after the Back Panthers did the same back in the 60s.

The problem with systematic racism is the "percieved threat" part. When I have that racisit bias, I obviously will percieve a black person more as a threat than a white one. I may not even be aware of it, and facing ones own biases is a hard thing even more so for such serious things as racism and police brutality. When this bias is combined with the kind of training US police is getting, it a given to end up where the US ended up.

The only nice thing is, it also shows where to sart to remedy theissues. Once the police and the poluation accepted to see the issues.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#878

Post by michaelt » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 10:28 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #655

baddox wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to what definition are you claiming that police brutality is not a public health problem?

Oxford Textbook of Public Health: https://m.oxfordmedicine.com/mobile/view/10.1093/med/9780199... . Do you see any sections on police brutality? Not to mention, I have family in the field, I grew up with probably a dozen public health experts attending Thanksgiving dinner, and did my first internship at a public health company. At no point in hearing decades of shop talk did I ever hear police brutality being mention…

In my country, what counts as a 'public health' matter is essentially arbitrary. Or at least seems that way to me.

For example, smoking, sunblock usage, sugary drinks, STDs, binge drinking and falls by elderly people are widely seen as public health issues.

Safety nets on trampolines, malnutrition, illegal drugs, suicide, bad diets and road traffic accidents are sometimes seen as public health issues.

Skiing, rugby, workplace fall prevention, migrants using unseaworthy boats and violence between drug dealers are almost never seen as public health issues.

If there's a clear dividing line, I can't see what it is :)

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#879

Post by hef19898 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 10:33 AM UTC

mns wrote: post #835

metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

This is not just the US, I just realised that in Germany, Munich, there were some "rednecks" and weird people protesting the Corona measures. So they closed down a 100 acres area where Oktoberfest takes place for a 1000 person protest (that's how much they were allowed). Now I live in that area and on that weekend we were stopped by the police while going shopping, and they were stopping everyone to make sure you're…

At least in Munich, the latest protests are around a time everything is opening up again anyways.

The anti-lockdown protest happened, more or less, during the hight of the lockdown. So totally different circumstances.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#880

Post by NicoJuicy » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 10:35 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #498

smsm42 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Which most people would take as implying it's not actually risky - even though they are not saying that. They…

Don’t forget public health officials outright lied and said masks don’t help reduce the spread of the disease, putatively to help conserve masks for medical personnel: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-... > When news of a mysterious viral pneumonia linked to a market in Wuhan, China, reached the outside world in early January, one of my first reactions was to order a modest supply of masks.…

Who says it's lying? Modern Western world has never had a pandemic in the current globally connected world.

Recommendations try to take everything in to account.

It's easy now to say: just wear masks. But then, there was even a global shortage of masks for health professionals.