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America is giving up on the pandemic?

theatlantic.com

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Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#451

Post by metrokoi »

caconym_ wrote: post #224
metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

Where'd they "tell us there is no risk from these protests"? The letter you linked explicitly advises us to "prepare for an increased number of infections in the days following a protest [and] provide increased access to testing and care for people in the affected communities, especially when they or their family members put themselves at risk by attending protests." They just seem to think protesting America's rampa…

>Where'd they "tell us there is no risk from these protests"?

In this quotation: "we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission". "As risky" seems like a very specific choice of words because they could have said "we do not condemn these gatherings because of the risk" but did not.

Similar to how a judge might say "I condemn you to death" is designating the sentence of death to a subject, "condemning a gathering as risky" is designating the attribute of risk to a gathering. They do not condemn the gathering as risky, so they consciously decide to not designate or apply the attribute of risk to the gathering.

Of course, it could have simply been a mistake to word the sentence in this way, but "as risky" does not seem like the obvious choice of words, "because of the risk" does.

And yes, they do later go on to say to prepare for an increased number of infections and do recognize that protestors can and likely will spread the disease, but that just goes to show that the statement is contradicting itself. They are specifically being inconsistent in the earlier mentioned sentence.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#453

Post by scarmig »

metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

They're being flagrantly irresponsible. If nothing else, messaging and public trust are key parts of any epidemic response. Right now, a conservative might look at this letter and come away with the impression that this is a case of quarantine for thee but not for me. An opinion that wouldn't be unjustified: can you imagine them doing the same thing to provide cover for abortion protests? The right to religious gatherings? It burns goodwill and trust, making significant public health interventions harder both now and in the future.

The reason, of course, is that ignoring the potential for disease transmission in these protests is necessary to stay in the good graces of woke circles.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#454

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

GuB-42 wrote: post #436
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A clearer stance would help, but I feel like there's a fundamental problem with taking any stance. For public health authorities to affirmatively endorse political causes severely compromises their authority as neutral arbiters.

It is not "public health authorities". It is not a message from the government or any organization in a position of power. Instead, it is an open letter from health professionals. They express themselves both as medical experts and as human beings, so having a political stance is no problem, as long as they make it clear which part of them is speaking. I think it is not clear enough in their letter, but in my opinion…

They're not expressing their support for the protests as a personal or political question separate from their medical expertise. The letter says that "white supremacy is a lethal public health issue", racism is "the paramount public health problem", and the protests are "vital to the national public health". This is beyond simply not making it clear enough; they're deliberately invoking their medical expertise as a source of authority for their political judgments.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#455

Post by thirtythree »

School-Cotton wrote: post #244
Barrin92 wrote: post #4

The concerns are right but public assembly is critical in a democracy, and cannot be put on hold indefinitely. It's probably the most fundamental right in any civil society and with all these takes I have seen on twitter about COVID and the protests, a lot of people seem to seriously unerestimate the value that free assembly has. Covid as bad as it is will be an issue of the near future, civil rights gains or losses…

Public assembly is critical, yes. So is the ability to work, run a business, get married, and engage in social gatherings. Either COVID-19 is serious enough that it merits cancelling a bunch of “critical” features of normal life, or it isn’t.

Agreed. Protesting in my country is going on but funerals are restricted and weddings forbidden. Grandparents haven't seen there grandchildren in a long time...

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#456

Post by usaar333 »

Animats wrote: post #14

San Mateo County health officer: "The third modification of the shelter in place order is being made on 6/1/20. These modifications are being made in attempt to strike a balance. They are an attempt to find a way to increase the immunity of the population (in public health terms, this is called “herd immunity”) slowly and methodically, while minimizing premature death, with equity in mind, while not overloading the h…

1968 Hong Kong flu killed 100,000 people. (170k population adjusted)

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#457

Post by catalogia »

refurb wrote: post #319
ianai wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s crazy though is for the first time in my life I actually fear for the future existence of the US. I watched 9/11 in real time and that didn’t feel as much of a threat to our existence as this does. There’s an actual civil war movement among the extremists now. I don’t think that existed during the civil rights movement days, even. Nor even the Vietnam fallout.

If you think things are worse now than in the 1960's, I don't know what to tell you. They were way worse. Multiple politicians assassinated. Major multi-day riots across multiple cities with hundred dead. Then a president being impeached. 2020 doesn't even come close to the 1960's.

Trump and Clinton were both impeached too. Neither were convicted, but Nixon wasn't convicted either (he quit before that could happen.)

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#458

Post by caconym_ »

metrokoi wrote: post #451
caconym_ wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where'd they "tell us there is no risk from these protests"? The letter you linked explicitly advises us to "prepare for an increased number of infections in the days following a protest [and] provide increased access to testing and care for people in the affected communities, especially when they or their family members put themselves at risk by attending protests." They just seem to think protesting America's rampa…

>Where'd they "tell us there is no risk from these protests"? In this quotation: "we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission". "As risky" seems like a very specific choice of words because they could have said "we do not condemn these gatherings because of the risk" but did not. Similar to how a judge might say "I condemn you to death" is designating the sentence of death to a subject, "con…

It's certainly not how I'd word it, but if you read the whole letter they clearly and unambiguously acknowledge and restate the risk. That's the beginning and end of it for me.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#459

Post by zepto »

zarathustreal wrote: post #389
wpietri wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weirdly, hundreds of people were wandering around state capitols with much more dangerous looking weapons, and no cop shot them on site. It's almost like going by "perceived threat" (as determined after the fact by cops) is a giant hole that allows racial bias free reign.

Racial bias is absolutely disgusting. Nothing about the color of a person's skin or their family lineage could ever give indication of the actions they're likely to take. Culture on the other hand, which by definition includes behavior, can be a pretty good indicator. Either way, the room for error grows as the time taken to make a judgement decreases and unfortunately in the situations police find themselves in they…

The problem is that police often determine people’s ‘culture’ by the color of their skin.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#460

Post by Anon1096 »

treyfitty wrote: post #421
Animats wrote: post #304

Total deaths in US caused by police. (2019, full year): 1112 [1] Total deaths in US caused by coronavirus (last Friday, one day): 975 [2] [1] https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

I see the intent... but scale is drastically different. You’re comparing a yearly figure to a daily one that is nowhere near the daily max to begin with.

I believe that is the point of the comment. That one day of COVID is equivalent to a whole year of police killings.
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