America is giving up on the pandemic? • Hacker News Board

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#851

Post by Traubenfuchs » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 9:48 AM UTC

metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

This utterly ridiculous doublethink statement is a big present for real racists. Because it is blatantly racist and elitist.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#852

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 9:50 AM UTC

SllX wrote: post #755

deanCommie wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The problem with falsehoods is that by making and perpetuating them, you are undermining your own credibility. Yes, there are some who will think that maybe it was better to be lied to, but most will remember the fact that they were lied to. And some of those will believe that they were lied to because their life was discounted. The problem with lying is that your intent doesn’t matter, you still lied, and in a socie…

It's a trust problem more than anything else. If I trust the medical professionals, I may accept them lying for our own societal good.

However, lots of people don't trust (various types of) "authority". And for them, the lie is further proof of their prior lack of trust.

It's a hard problem, which has been made a lot worse by the politicising of masks, in particular.

My own prior is that Asian people have been wearing masks for many years, and I am inclined to believe that masks are (somewhat) useful. However, there's been so little research on mask-wearing by the general populace that I am deeply uncertain about those benefits.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#853

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 9:50 AM UTC

noad wrote: post #530

scarmig wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're being flagrantly irresponsible. If nothing else, messaging and public trust are key parts of any epidemic response. Right now, a conservative might look at this letter and come away with the impression that this is a case of quarantine for thee but not for me. An opinion that wouldn't be unjustified: can you imagine them doing the same thing to provide cover for abortion protests? The right to religious gathe…

Or maybe there are just bigger problems than the virus right now.

[deleted]

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#854

Post by arrrg » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 9:51 AM UTC

bb2018 wrote: post #372

rpiguy wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, items 1, 3, 4, and 5 are all extremely dangerous. The Not Police would be in grave danger. There is a reason that the Police Police are armed. That guy on drugs could stab you, you could pull a car over and that person could have a gun, you could go to stop domestic violence and get attacked. Police brutality goes up proportionately with violent crime in their area. In other words, the more police deal…

I'm sure there is great data on police calls but from my experience with calling 911 social workers wouldn't really help. Earlier this year there was a homeless man waving a knife at pedestrians a few blocks from my house. I know this is a mental health issue and we need do do more for our homelesss - but I couldn't ask officers to deal with stuff like that on the regular with little or no protection. I've also calle…

In such mental health situations the social worker could be the commanding officer (essentially commanding police officers), relying on violence if deemed necessary.

The important point is that the structure of decision making inside the police is totally messed up. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail …

So the leadership has to come from somewhere else, basically.

One huge obstacle I still see is that US police basically completely gambled away trust inside the communities. They have to build up trust and are unwilling or unable to do that. That’s tragic. One way to change that would be to tip the balance way in favor of anyone not in the police, e.g. the police having to be right in fact when they apply violence to a problem (i.e. if they shoot the person they are suspecting of having a gun better have a gun or else they go to prison).

This would obviously lead to less effective policing, but that might be needed to lead to a change of strategy by the police. Because if you have to be right in fact you will act differently.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#855

Post by hef19898 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 9:51 AM UTC

blub wrote: post #823

Tomte wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Why do you think you disagree with me there? The point is that when almost all contagious people stay at home, we don't need community masks. We only need them because contagious people are asymptomatic (that's new!), tehrefore don't know about their status and therefore go out in public.

Almost all contagious people never stay at home. Based on my experience, people with colds come to work and go about their business.

That is anecdata. Maybe valid for, say, January. Starting Febuary, that changed. Again anecdata, but In Germany you got up to 2 weeks of sick eave for potential COVID-19 symptoms without seeing a doctor.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#856

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 9:52 AM UTC

blub wrote: post #816

apatters wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as pedantic but airborne transmission of COVID-19 is rare. Not ruled out completely but not the main way it is spread. In the initial Chinese study of 75K they said there was zero airborne transmission, I think they've found some exceptions since but it's not a common thing. The WHO actually has a definition for this, when the droplets carrying the disease are It's still good to wea…

If your source that airborne transmission is rare is the WHO, then all you have is a worthless source. Recently I've read an interview with Drosten (the German virologist which came up with one of the Coronavirus tests) say that they're starting to see airborne transmission as an important transmission factor, maybe not a strong as droplets but comparable. This is especially the case in poorly ventilated spaces.

I don't suppose you have links to any pre-prints or papers (hell even blog posts I guess) around this?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#857

Post by Traubenfuchs » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 9:52 AM UTC

Overblown stay at home / quarantine measures are the biggest harm done to the citizens of (Western) countries, since their last respective big wars.

The damage is and will continue to be immeasurable. How will the years of life we saved measure up to the years of life and quality of life we have ruined? We will never know.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#858

Post by goldenkey » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 9:53 AM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #675

gentryb wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first started doing volunteer health assessments and triage at our local homeless shelter, I inquired if facial hair was an issue with PPE. The organization's initial response was no. I sent them a link to the CDC guidance[1] that includes this picture regarding facial hair styles that are ok[2]. I don't think the notice at the top of said article is helpful whatsoever saying that this isn't advice for covid-1…

What would someone find offensive about the picture?

Some people have a hitler mustache phobia.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#859

Post by flyinglizard » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 9:55 AM UTC

alkibiades wrote: post #778

xelxebar wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no wonder people don’t believe in global warming, these “experts” prioritize politics over everything I read this as a clear expression of your frustration. Completely reasonable given the situation. Are you familiar with the YouTube channel "Smarter Every Day"? There's this three-part series that might offer a new perspective on the distrust and disillusionment you seem to be feeling: [1]: https://www.youtube.com/…

while interesting, i dont quite see how thats related. public health experts during this whole crisis have been morally and intellectually bankrupt. misinformation on social media is a separate issue

I think the point is that usually, a layman would suspect the expert opinion after being exposed to another view broadcast on social media. Social media is the source and the moderator of our contrarian/critics information.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#860

Post by cylinder » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 9:57 AM UTC

vgchh wrote: post #605

Being an American (Naturalized), I am unable to understand where are we headed. It's often said that America always bounces back. That American spirit and innovativeness is unmatched and capable of overcoming any obstacles. However, the current environment feels surreal. We have had the most Covid infections and most deaths in the world. Mass protests against police brutality, being met with more police brutality. Wi…

>That American spirit and innovativeness is unmatched and capable of overcoming any obstacles.

marketing hype. That's what America is good at it. Yes, America is a leader in innovation and technology and business. No, there is not something "exceptional" about the US or Americans relative to other free market, liberal countries that makes it "capable of overcoming any obstacle" other than its very large market size, possession of a resource-rich landmass with a relatively small population density. Yet instead of recognizing their luck and good fortune, Americans tell the world things like: God chose us, we are exceptional people, we are special, etc., which is nonsense.