America is giving up on the pandemic? • Hacker News Board

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#771

Post by nappy » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:08 AM UTC

orange8 wrote: post #627

Animats wrote: post #304

Total deaths in US caused by police. (2019, full year): 1112 [1] Total deaths in US caused by coronavirus (last Friday, one day): 975 [2] [1] https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Comparing apples to apples: Average daily deaths in US caused by heart disease: 1800 Average daily deaths in US caused by cancer: 1600 Average daily deaths in US caused by corona virus: 1000 https://www.healthline.com/health/leading-causes-of-death Comparing oranges to oranges: Total deaths in US caused by homicide (2019): 19510 Total deaths in US caused by police (2019): 1112 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicid…

Not apples to apples at all. This is the average daily COVID-19 deaths with extreme restrictions - so imagine comparing this heart disease with large-scale mandatory exercise, or cancer if cigarettes were eliminated entirely.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#772

Post by mirekrusin » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:10 AM UTC

Tomte wrote: post #754

rayiner wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget public health officials outright lied and said masks don’t help reduce the spread of the disease, putatively to help conserve masks for medical personnel: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-... > When news of a mysterious viral pneumonia linked to a market in Wuhan, China, reached the outside world in early January, one of my first reactions was to order a modest supply of masks.…

That is simply not true and an awful accusation. The last Sars or Coronavirus illnesses differed from this one, as in those cases asymptomatic people were not spreading the virus very much. So the (reasonable) assumption was that people mostly know when they are contagious and stay at home. In that scenario "community masks" (everything below FPP-2) don't matter much. When researchers found that Covid-19 is different…

When wearing mask in public you're not protecting yourself - that's ineffective - you're protecting others from your own cough/talking droplets - that's effective.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#773

Post by dehrmann » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:10 AM UTC

Trasmatta wrote: post #245

n9 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recalibrate your assessment with the 14-21 day incubation rate factored in and with a critical eye on states like Florida, who are actively trying to minimize reported cases/deaths.

Source on Florida trying to actively minimize cases / deaths? Also, I thought the incubation period was more like 3-14 days, not 14-21?

Median incubation period is 5 days.[1]

I'm a little frustrated with public health officials who say we need to wait 14 days between lockdown steps because of the incubation period. 14 days is for quarantine, but you'll have the data you need by 10 days (assuming a lag between the onset of symptoms and testing) at the latest.

1: https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/journal-scans/2020/...

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#774

Post by Tomte » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:15 AM UTC

monkpit wrote: post #767

Tomte wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is simply not true and an awful accusation. The last Sars or Coronavirus illnesses differed from this one, as in those cases asymptomatic people were not spreading the virus very much. So the (reasonable) assumption was that people mostly know when they are contagious and stay at home. In that scenario "community masks" (everything below FPP-2) don't matter much. When researchers found that Covid-19 is different…

> “we need to preserve masks for the medical community” To be fair, I remember looking it up on the CDC website when this all started, and they explicitly stated any masks are not necessary (or useful) unless you are caring for a sick patient.

That's exactly what I wrote: the working assumption was that you wouldn't be contagious (because then you'd be staying at home yourself). That turned out to be wrong. Later.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#775

Post by Tomte » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:15 AM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #762

Tomte wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is simply not true and an awful accusation. The last Sars or Coronavirus illnesses differed from this one, as in those cases asymptomatic people were not spreading the virus very much. So the (reasonable) assumption was that people mostly know when they are contagious and stay at home. In that scenario "community masks" (everything below FPP-2) don't matter much. When researchers found that Covid-19 is different…

It is actually true. The surgeon general literally said: "Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus"

Did you read my comment at all?

"which was a smaller component of the motivation, sure, but got mostly conflated with the real argument. I think that is because it was much easier to explain to the public and to journalists."

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#776

Post by joegahona » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:16 AM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #465

metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

Political statements like that can really hurt their credibility as public health officials, especially if increased transmission from protests causes them to call for another lockdown. Either say large, outdoor gatherings like this are risky or they aren't (or maybe they're just slightly risky). Don't get into "protesting these things is ok, protesting these isn't."

Exactly. If all of these civilians where smashed together in Trump rallies or concerts or sporting events, would they have the same petition circulating?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#777

Post by Hnrobert42 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:16 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #498

smsm42 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Which most people would take as implying it's not actually risky - even though they are not saying that. They…

Don’t forget public health officials outright lied and said masks don’t help reduce the spread of the disease, putatively to help conserve masks for medical personnel: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-... > When news of a mysterious viral pneumonia linked to a market in Wuhan, China, reached the outside world in early January, one of my first reactions was to order a modest supply of masks.…

How do you know it was a lie? What evidence do you have?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#778

Post by alkibiades » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:18 AM UTC

xelxebar wrote: post #761

alkibiades wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i’m 25 and this whole covid debacle and seeing how public health officials handle it has soured me on all “experts” for the rest of my life. no wonder people don’t believe in global warming, these “experts” prioritize politics over everything

> no wonder people don’t believe in global warming, these “experts” prioritize politics over everything I read this as a clear expression of your frustration. Completely reasonable given the situation. Are you familiar with the YouTube channel "Smarter Every Day"? There's this three-part series that might offer a new perspective on the distrust and disillusionment you seem to be feeling: [1]: https://www.youtube.com/…

while interesting, i dont quite see how thats related.

public health experts during this whole crisis have been morally and intellectually bankrupt. misinformation on social media is a separate issue

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#779

Post by Hnrobert42 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:19 AM UTC

alkibiades wrote: post #602

smsm42 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Which most people would take as implying it's not actually risky - even though they are not saying that. They…

i’m 25 and this whole covid debacle and seeing how public health officials handle it has soured me on all “experts” for the rest of my life. no wonder people don’t believe in global warming, these “experts” prioritize politics over everything

I do hope you look more closely at the record. “Experts” are not a uniform monolith. Some are competent. Some aren’t.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#780

Post by mesozoic » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 5:19 AM UTC

Good question that the media seems to be avoiding. I'll be watching our infection rates closely over the next 2 weeks and have some real questions about everything if they don't spike.