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America is giving up on the pandemic?

theatlantic.com

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Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#241

Post by n9 »

ac29 wrote: post #22

Daily new deaths have been steadily falling even as states continue to ease or eliminate restrictions [0]: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ This article seems to completely ignore that, instead focusing on positive test results, even though the vast majority of infections are mild or even completely asymptomatic. If anything, America is giving up on the breathless projections of mass die off that…

Recalibrate your assessment with the 14-21 day incubation rate factored in and with a critical eye on states like Florida, who are actively trying to minimize reported cases/deaths.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#242

Post by HuShifang »

metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

Public health is concerned with the health of the public -- which includes health issues induced by stress, poor nutrition, pollution, etc. (Ever notice how African Americans' life expectancy is much lower than that of white Americans? Public health experts have. They study it.) So, in this case, they're calculating that making strides against inequality will be worth the cost of more COVID-19 cases.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#243

Post by at_a_remove »

mydongle wrote: post #113

It's tragic watching this play out. 4chan's /pol/ amongst many other racists love it. They don't have to do anything while everything implodes. They see Covid-19 as a nothing burger, and health experts giving these protestors a pass vindicates their belief. But if Covid-19 is not a nothing burger, then these protests will end up with many black people and other minorities sick and possibly dead. People on the alt-rig…

If they love it, perhaps they do because it proves what they have been saying: that this has been politicized from the get-go, in so many ways, and all of the staunch denials of it become ever more ludicrous as this continues. Don't worry, the WHO says that there is no human-to-human transmission, China told them. Don't buy masks. What are you doing without a mask on, do you just hate the elderly? Anyone re-opening early is going to destroy America. But get out and protest! The Lancet has assured us that Trump as usual didn't know what he was talking about.

On and on.

They love it because, like anyone, they love being proven right. If you want them not to love it, then do not prove them right.

We shouldn't have let politics drive all of our COVID-19 policies and responses, but we did, now it is evident, and we're going to have to pay for that with a loss of trust.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#244

Post by School-Cotton »

Barrin92 wrote: post #4

The concerns are right but public assembly is critical in a democracy, and cannot be put on hold indefinitely. It's probably the most fundamental right in any civil society and with all these takes I have seen on twitter about COVID and the protests, a lot of people seem to seriously unerestimate the value that free assembly has. Covid as bad as it is will be an issue of the near future, civil rights gains or losses…

Public assembly is critical, yes. So is the ability to work, run a business, get married, and engage in social gatherings.

Either COVID-19 is serious enough that it merits cancelling a bunch of “critical” features of normal life, or it isn’t.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#245

Post by Trasmatta »

n9 wrote: post #241
ac29 wrote: post #22

Daily new deaths have been steadily falling even as states continue to ease or eliminate restrictions [0]: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ This article seems to completely ignore that, instead focusing on positive test results, even though the vast majority of infections are mild or even completely asymptomatic. If anything, America is giving up on the breathless projections of mass die off that…

Recalibrate your assessment with the 14-21 day incubation rate factored in and with a critical eye on states like Florida, who are actively trying to minimize reported cases/deaths.

Source on Florida trying to actively minimize cases / deaths? Also, I thought the incubation period was more like 3-14 days, not 14-21?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#246

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

bjourne wrote: post #189
rohitb91 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that public assembly is essential regardless of what is going on. But why were the people protesting the lock downs and business shutdowns and the limiting of freedoms the yahoos and crazy murderers? Why did nurses block them from protesting but not one would block someone now?

Because they compared governors to Hitler and their plight to how Jews were persecuted during the Holocaust. They also lynched an effigy of a politician they despised. That is why they were the crazy ones.

But there are clear enforceability issues with trying to establish "protests are allowed unless they're crazy" as a rule. Who gets to decide what's crazy?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#247

Post by bsder »

neonate wrote: post #200
Barrin92 wrote: post #4

The concerns are right but public assembly is critical in a democracy, and cannot be put on hold indefinitely. It's probably the most fundamental right in any civil society and with all these takes I have seen on twitter about COVID and the protests, a lot of people seem to seriously unerestimate the value that free assembly has. Covid as bad as it is will be an issue of the near future, civil rights gains or losses…

The issue is the double standard with which some protestors were condemned while others were lauded based solely on which causes (and which classes of people) the commenters happened to politically support. It's transparently unprincipled, to the point of being a sad joke.

There is a difference between a couple dozen cosplaytriots showing up with guns to protest not getting a haircut and a hundred thousand+ of the general public showing up without guns to protest people getting killed and maimed live on camera--including the press.

However, if you want to talk about double standard, where are the cosplaytriots who were sooooo concerned about their rights? Where is the groundswell of Second Amendment defenders out protecting these protests against the government like the Black Panthers did back in the 1960's?

They all bluster about standing up to the government--here is the time. So why is silence all I hear? Seems like they don't really care about those pesky rights so much, after all. And it seems like they don't really like standing up when the government might actually shoot back. Cowards.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#248

Post by chipperyman573 »

turndown wrote: post #202
throwmehaweh wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the epitome of hypocrisy. How could anyone take them seriously now that they’ve shown to be complete frauds? Is it any wonder that half the country doesn’t trust the government lockdowns? “Stay inside”, “don’t gather in groups”, “cancel your wedding”, “wear a mask during sex”, but oh hey, it’s OK to go downtown and riot, burn down buildings, and throw bricks at the police.

No one will take you seriously as a new user with the name "throwmehaweh". If you actually believe the things in your post, I recommend you use your actual account to state your beliefs. Your description of the protests as going downtown to riot is the type of misrepresentation we expect from children, not adults.

The account someone posts something from has nothing to do with the validity of their argument.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#249

Post by lostdog »

raz32dust wrote: post #69

We now have a big unplanned experiment. We will see within the next few days if the protests lead to significant spikes. Personally, I think that the virus probably doesn't spread that easily outdoors, so while we will see a spike, it will be small enough that it will only make the case for opening up outdoor activities sooner. Fingers crossed.

First we will see if all the memorial day barbecues caused a spike. And all the preemptive reopening orders in different states.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#250

Post by jddj »

axguscbklp wrote: post #183
jakkyboi wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such an ignorant take, it's astonishing. The "general narrative" is about rampant police brutality that first and foremost disproportionately affects people of color. It's a problem that's existed since the inception of a police force in the US and that's what this movement is about. No one is trying to play a silly number game of which race kills more of what other race.

But it's not a "silly number game", it's a very serious analysis of numbers that should be done to try to determine whether certain conclusions are accurate or inaccurate. Otherwise we have only anecdotes and narratives. Edit: I can make no claim of being a statistician. My statistical arguments probably have some holes in them. But I will at least say that the numbers that I've looked at seem to me to be sufficient…

You're stopping short of spelling out your conclusion.

The aims of the protests are to shine a spotlight on police brutality and qualified immunity / defund the police / ensure that killer cops are prosecuted / damage property in pursuit of anarchy / score a new TV / whatever. It's all fairly clear and makes enough sense.

Your idea, however, leaves us with nothing but a knowing look and an appeal to not trust the narrative. If you can read any broader frustration here, it's because all the "but what about white folks?" people in my social circle have been following the same playbook.

So where does it go? Does your argument conclude that the police should be harsher still towards black people? Does it suggest that police who kill should suffer less scrutiny than they presently do? Is the status quo fine, and the resolution should be that everyone just shut up and go home?

What's your call to action here, and what would be the immediate real-world consequences of your worldview?

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