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America is giving up on the pandemic?

theatlantic.com

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Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#761

Post by xelxebar »

alkibiades wrote: post #602
smsm42 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Which most people would take as implying it's not actually risky - even though they are not saying that. They…

i’m 25 and this whole covid debacle and seeing how public health officials handle it has soured me on all “experts” for the rest of my life. no wonder people don’t believe in global warming, these “experts” prioritize politics over everything

> no wonder people don’t believe in global warming, these “experts” prioritize politics over everything

I read this as a clear expression of your frustration. Completely reasonable given the situation.

Are you familiar with the YouTube channel "Smarter Every Day"? There's this three-part series that might offer a new perspective on the distrust and disillusionment you seem to be feeling:

[1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PGm8LslEb4

[2]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1RhQ1uuQ4

[3]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY_NtO7SIrY

In particular, the channel creator Destin Sandlin explores how YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook are being used as a sort of vanguard in a meta-game to undermine our trust in the social institutions we rely on.

It's a pretty dystopian-sounding and bleak theme. However, Destin is really good at conveying a message of hope.

Use your Critical Mind, of course, but also realize that there's a personal cost to adopting absolutist views like `"experts" prioritize politics over everything.'

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#762

Post by ikeyany »

Tomte wrote: post #754
rayiner wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget public health officials outright lied and said masks don’t help reduce the spread of the disease, putatively to help conserve masks for medical personnel: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-... > When news of a mysterious viral pneumonia linked to a market in Wuhan, China, reached the outside world in early January, one of my first reactions was to order a modest supply of masks.…

That is simply not true and an awful accusation. The last Sars or Coronavirus illnesses differed from this one, as in those cases asymptomatic people were not spreading the virus very much. So the (reasonable) assumption was that people mostly know when they are contagious and stay at home. In that scenario "community masks" (everything below FPP-2) don't matter much. When researchers found that Covid-19 is different…

It is actually true. The surgeon general literally said:

"Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus"

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#763

Post by eganist »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #280
matwood wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's incorrect to only count deaths as the fallout from police attitude towards minorities. An entire group of people is effectively controlled and held back my the police. As we have already seen, the impacts are generational and have gotten us to where we are today. COVID-19 is the thing will most likely be forgotten next year with some sort of vaccine or herd immunity arising. Even if the protests are succ…

I'm so flabbergasted by this argument on behalf of killing innocent people I barely even know where to begin. In my mind, there is almost no cause that warrants the avoidable death of even a single person, let alone tens of thousands. Clearly you have a very different morality.

> In my mind, there is almost no cause that warrants the avoidable death of even a single person, let alone tens of thousands.

Yes, because you're operating from a position of privilege (regardless of your background/race). They are potentially sacrificing their own lives in an effort to mitigate the risk of potentially centuries of lives tortured or lost in the future, and that's the point you're missing.

This is a generational struggle, and they have an opportunity of a lifetime to make a lasting change. And on top of that, they're making every effort to do it safely.

(p.s. I'll make a point of calling out every flag and downvoter on HN - that's my protest. I'll gladly lose 22 points and counting if it means standing up for their right to life)

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#764

Post by dehrmann »

remote_phone wrote: post #636
vgchh wrote: post #605

Being an American (Naturalized), I am unable to understand where are we headed. It's often said that America always bounces back. That American spirit and innovativeness is unmatched and capable of overcoming any obstacles. However, the current environment feels surreal. We have had the most Covid infections and most deaths in the world. Mass protests against police brutality, being met with more police brutality. Wi…

I think Biden should choose a moderate Republican as his VP. That is the most symbolic choice he could make that he is serious about bringing this country back together. It’s just about the only thing he could do that would unite this country. Going further left will destroy this country, not because I disagree with the policies but because right now we are in a crossroads for this political divisiveness.

I used to halfway joke that the US needed a McCain Lieberman ticket.

But wow, yes, that'd be a good choice. Condoleezza Rice?

George W. Bush is eligible (90% jokingly). Biden and Bush would be malapropism gold for SNL.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#765

Post by unishark »

scarmig wrote: post #453
metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

They're being flagrantly irresponsible. If nothing else, messaging and public trust are key parts of any epidemic response. Right now, a conservative might look at this letter and come away with the impression that this is a case of quarantine for thee but not for me. An opinion that wouldn't be unjustified: can you imagine them doing the same thing to provide cover for abortion protests? The right to religious gathe…

> ...this is a case of quarantine for thee but not for me.

I think you have this backwards?

And I'd note that this is just an open letter signed by those willing. Perhaps a left-leaning subset.

But yes my first thought when I see this kind of thing is how people have been criticizing religious gatherings.

Edit: oh I see how it can be viewed the other direction, where "thee" is the right and "me" is the left.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#766

Post by eganist »

whiddershins wrote: post #306
eganist wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's a certain misery that comes with [...] watching 10,000 people pack together downtown exercising their right to free assembly, and likely undoing all those months of progress. Yep, that's called privilege. And I'm not even trying to be snarky. From the perspective of the protesters, taking this opportunity to protest and possibly achieve change means hopefully lowering the general mortality risk for generati…

Even if police shooting were brought down to zero, I think it would take like 100 years to save as many lives as we’ve lost to Covid, right? And some people think that without intervention it would be more like 480,000 in the UD alone. So ...

> From the perspective of the protesters, taking this opportunity to protest and possibly achieve change means hopefully lowering the general mortality risk for generations to come, not just in the immediate COVID future.

I didn't mention police because this was never just about the police.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#767

Post by monkpit »

Tomte wrote: post #754
rayiner wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget public health officials outright lied and said masks don’t help reduce the spread of the disease, putatively to help conserve masks for medical personnel: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-... > When news of a mysterious viral pneumonia linked to a market in Wuhan, China, reached the outside world in early January, one of my first reactions was to order a modest supply of masks.…

That is simply not true and an awful accusation. The last Sars or Coronavirus illnesses differed from this one, as in those cases asymptomatic people were not spreading the virus very much. So the (reasonable) assumption was that people mostly know when they are contagious and stay at home. In that scenario "community masks" (everything below FPP-2) don't matter much. When researchers found that Covid-19 is different…

> “we need to preserve masks for the medical community”

To be fair, I remember looking it up on the CDC website when this all started, and they explicitly stated any masks are not necessary (or useful) unless you are caring for a sick patient.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#768

Post by mola »

I'm afraid it was obvious US would not be able to deal with this. Powerful people have lost all sense of empathy. Their power is much more important to them than the lives of some poor people. The, rational, social darwinistic ideology has its grip firmly in the minds of Americans. I'm not even talking about the obvious culprits. I'm talking about us, we are obsessed with money and consumerism. We think optics is more than reality, We talk about political identity, where the obvious problem is class. We are shattered to tiny pieces fighting each other while a handful of people (not just white, mind you) keep their power.

Sad

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#769

Post by [deleted] »

TeaDrunk wrote: post #476
achenatx wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are no calculations being done. They believe in the cause therefore it is justified. They dont believe in the cause of the other side (freedom of movement/commerce) and therefore dont believe they are justified. They are pretending to base it on science, when it is just another political opinion.

"there are no calculations being done" Calculations on what, exactly? There are calculations done on how police brutality and systemtic racism contribute to decreased quality of life for black americans. It's considered widely acknowledged within the healthcare industry that black americans have statistically significant health disparities compared to other races, and that additionally it is statistically known that…

[deleted]

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#770

Post by dehrmann »

ac29 wrote: post #22

Daily new deaths have been steadily falling even as states continue to ease or eliminate restrictions [0]: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ This article seems to completely ignore that, instead focusing on positive test results, even though the vast majority of infections are mild or even completely asymptomatic. If anything, America is giving up on the breathless projections of mass die off that…

Deaths is a tricky metric because the first wave more heavily impacted people who were at-risk (think nursing home deaths).

Now, if most people have mild infections, what death rate are will willing to tolerate? It's definitely more than zero. Was Sweden's big mistake how it handled migrant communities and nursing homes?

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