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America is giving up on the pandemic?

theatlantic.com

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Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#641

Post by danielam »

tootie wrote: post #548
smsm42 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Which most people would take as implying it's not actually risky - even though they are not saying that. They…

This isn't weasel speak at all. They're pretty clear that it's risky. They're just saying that they won't condemn protestors as taking frivolous risks the way anti-lockdown protestors or fun-seekers are. Police brutality, systemic racism, income inequality are all major public health risks in their own right.

"Andrew Sullivan calls our attention to epidemiologist Tara C. Smith, who moves with that curious herd of 'experts' suddenly not terribly concerned about social distancing when the protesters filling the streets are left-wing rather than right-wing. Writes Sullivan: 'The message to normies: going outside is killing grandma. The message to woke kids: never mind!'

"So which is it? Were people like Smith lying before about the danger of spreading the virus, in order to promote a political agenda? Or being honest about it but now willing to endanger countless lives, in order to promote a political agenda?

"Adding smug cluelessness to her dishonesty and/or recklessness, Smith also sniffs that the difference is that those who rallied to end the lockdown were merely 'protesting for their ability to get a haircut.'

"Yes, of course, haircuts. It had nothing to do with wanting to get back to work in order to support their families, salvage businesses it took a lifetime to build, avoid depleting their life savings, get their kids back in the classroom, etc. It was all about haircuts." [0]

I think that excerpt makes my point for me, so I won't belabor it. Unless you want to apply the obtuse label to yourself like you did to bmmayer1.

[0] https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2020/06/what-science-is-say...

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#642

Post by GiorgioG »

gridspy wrote: post #574
humaniania wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC revised their risk estimates towards the end of last month. "The fifth scenario is the CDC's "current best estimate about viral transmission and disease severity in the United States." In that scenario, the agency described its estimate that 0.4% of people who feel sick with Covid-19 will die. For people age 65 and older, the CDC puts that number at 1.3%. For people 49 and under, the agency estimated that 0.0…

Even if you do not die, you might have a very unpleasant experience with lasting consequences. Perhaps a better way to frame it would be - 2% (?) of patients have serious life-changing consequences. Those under 49 tend to survive them.

The problem for me is we don't have any way at this time of knowing at an individual level what the consequences are likely to be. I might have no symptoms if I get sick but I may transmit it my son (type 1 diabetic) who might die. Or maybe he'd be fine and I might die, etc. There's just no way to gauge what one's reaction might be to getting the coronavirus.

A local, healthy 8 year old girl started having symptoms last week Thursday and died the following Tuesday.

I don't expect my family's lockdown to end before well into next year at the earliest. The odds are against dying or long term complications for younger people, but is going out to dinner, a bar, sporting or music event worth the risk? Not for me. Stay safe folks.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#643

Post by selimthegrim »

remote_phone wrote: post #636
vgchh wrote: post #605

Being an American (Naturalized), I am unable to understand where are we headed. It's often said that America always bounces back. That American spirit and innovativeness is unmatched and capable of overcoming any obstacles. However, the current environment feels surreal. We have had the most Covid infections and most deaths in the world. Mass protests against police brutality, being met with more police brutality. Wi…

I think Biden should choose a moderate Republican as his VP. That is the most symbolic choice he could make that he is serious about bringing this country back together. It’s just about the only thing he could do that would unite this country. Going further left will destroy this country, not because I disagree with the policies but because right now we are in a crossroads for this political divisiveness.

He should choose that Orlando police chief

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#644

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

toasterlovin wrote: post #612
whymauri wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all means, suggest a better country to draw a comparison with.

Unfortunately, the US is incomparable (in the neutral sense of the word) when it comes to most socio-economic issues. There literally is no other country that is similar to the US across more than one or two important factors.

It would seem more appropriate to compare each US state with another country of similar statistics.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#645

Post by screenbeard »

mythrwy wrote: post #526
01100011 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Amy Cooper/Christian Cooper incident from a few weeks ago was the most important 'teachable moment' that we've had in years. I am somewhat disappointed that it was overshadowed by protests against police brutality, because I thought it was a very 'teachable moment' that illustrated the type of racism that still exists behind a facade of tolerance. Police abuse is sort of a separate issue relating to train…

Maybe I'm not understanding the term "structural". To me the word indicates institutions officially set up to behave in a racial manner, i.e segregation. Obviously we don't have much or any of that anymore. But I agree racism and profiling (which I think of as a separate issue... note, I do think it's an "issue") exist. I just balk at the use of the term "structural". Structural is rounding up Muslims in Western Chin…

Something doesn't have to be encoded in law to be structural. If a cop racially profiles a black man and harasses him and his boss doesn't discipline him, that's structural. The structure has failed to provide the right outcome.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#646

Post by ta17711771 »

eanzenberg wrote: post #558
ta17711771 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask me how I know you haven't known anyone that's died of COVID.

Actually I do, why?

Imagine if everyone in the whole country was told to stay home and not drive their cars, and the same amount of people still died in car accidents as they normally would.

That's the impact COVID is having. WITH the draconian lockdowns.

You literally cannot calculate what would have happened without.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#648

Post by commandlinefan »

shibeouya wrote: post #620
alkibiades wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i’m 25 and this whole covid debacle and seeing how public health officials handle it has soured me on all “experts” for the rest of my life. no wonder people don’t believe in global warming, these “experts” prioritize politics over everything

Wholeheartedly agree. I'm in my 30's with scientific education, but I will never take an "expert" opinion seriously after this. Very sad to see science shoot itself in the foot in the name of dubious politics.

I’m too familiar with university advancement policies to not be skeptical of the actual expertise of the “experts”.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#649

Post by shibeouya »

achenatx wrote: post #294

Just wanted to add that the abolish the police sentiment isnt as inane as it sounds on the surface. Abolish the police is about taking away responsibilities that police have today and giving them to people more suitable. Police - people trained for aggression with weapons to stop violent criminals should not be handling: 1) mental health 2) homeless 3) drug addiction 4) domestic violence 5) traffic stops etc etc They…

So when we have notoriously violent neighborhoods, can we send all the social workers to spread love and friendship and solve the problem?.

If you believe police is not needed as a form of authority, you have been living in a privileged bubble for far too long. Travel, look around, and you will see the world is not as nice as you think it is.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#650

Post by [deleted] »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #597
whymauri wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are all the state-wide openings in May, the opening of casinos, and the festivities of Memorial Day Weekend, of which we are already seeing COVID impacts, more or less morally indefensible than the BLM protests? When all these other non-protest gatherings of people were taking place, were you this outraged? If the answer is no: explain yourself.

Yes they are morally indefensible. Many of those decisions didn't make sense to me and yes I expressed outrage about it to friends. But your point is also a straw man. For the most part, there are still prohibitions on large gatherings of people. These protests have been blessed as an exception. Why? Because the government's hand was forced by political expediency. In essence, the government has failed to protect the…

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