America is giving up on the pandemic? • Hacker News Board

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#291

Post by zarathustreal » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

HuShifang wrote: post #242

metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

Public health is concerned with the health of the public -- which includes health issues induced by stress, poor nutrition, pollution, etc. (Ever notice how African Americans' life expectancy is much lower than that of white Americans? Public health experts have. They study it.) So, in this case, they're calculating that making strides against inequality will be worth the cost of more COVID-19 cases.

That is absolutely not the case. Furthermore there is nothing wrong with inequality, the only way we could all be equal is if we were all the same person. Even then we would exist in different physical space and thereby find different opportunities. Consider how mentally sick a person would have to be to think they have the right or even the ability to weigh the value of someone else's life against the value of someone else's inequality.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#292

Post by LudwigNagasena » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

HuShifang wrote: post #242

metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

Public health is concerned with the health of the public -- which includes health issues induced by stress, poor nutrition, pollution, etc. (Ever notice how African Americans' life expectancy is much lower than that of white Americans? Public health experts have. They study it.) So, in this case, they're calculating that making strides against inequality will be worth the cost of more COVID-19 cases.

What is the model they use to make this calculations?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#293

Post by fullshark » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #253

fullshark wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just misery, it feels fundamentally unjust. Basically some rule violations are deemed more equal than others, so why should I care anymore? If we're not "all in this together" why should I suffer?

That has long been a principle of law, not all violations are equal because of extenuating circumstances. One sizes fits all ignoring circumstances is foolishness, not justice even if it leads to 'equality'. There is a difference between smashing a window of a car to rob it or for shits and giggles, and doing it to save a life.

Is this law? Do these governments even have the authority they claim they do to issue these selective lockdowns? It's a gray area at best, and I'm sure many judges would consider these lockdowns actively illegal as is what happened in Wisconsin.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#294

Post by achenatx » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

Just wanted to add that the abolish the police sentiment isnt as inane as it sounds on the surface. Abolish the police is about taking away responsibilities that police have today and giving them to people more suitable. Police - people trained for aggression with weapons to stop violent criminals should not be handling:

1) mental health

2) homeless

3) drug addiction

4) domestic violence

5) traffic stops

etc etc

They should be called to handle

1) robbery in progress

2) active shooters

etc

The Not police should be trained in deescalation and should be familiar with all the social resources necessary to help people in the community. The not police should not be armed

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#295

Post by macspoofing » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

stonogo wrote: post #235

neonate wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is the double standard with which some protestors were condemned while others were lauded based solely on which causes (and which classes of people) the commenters happened to politically support. It's transparently unprincipled, to the point of being a sad joke.

That's not a double standard. That's just a standard. When one group of people is holding signs that say "stop murdering people" and the other group is holding signs that say "I need a haircut," and you're mad that "the commenters" are not treating them the same, the problem is not with the commenters.

This is the literal definition of a 'double standard' .... you know the same behaviour (protests) judged by different standards.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#296

Post by realtalk_sp » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

The comment thread here, and the national attitude more generally, is the literal embodiment of cognitive dissonance. Science and facts are only useful insofar as they are convenient to our ends.

I suppose, in light of the shortcomings of human nature, it would be a lot easier to make the point that needs to be made if we were dropping bombs on coronavirus victims and broadcasting the carnage instead of rolling them up into statistical output. Their crime, apparently, is dying in a way that isn't direct and emotionally resonant enough for other human beings to grasp the magnitude of it.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#297

Post by zarathustreal » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

monktastic1 wrote: post #228

metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

It doesn't say they're not risky, just that they don't condemn them as risky (i.e., for being risky). At least, that's how I read it.

Kinda disgusting how personal beliefs can influence professionals, no?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#298

Post by airstrike » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

christiansakai wrote: post #284

dang wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place, so that it can be collapsed and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of the thread.

Sorry I’m not a native English speaker. What does do not cross examine here mean? I thought cross examination is good?

I suppose the dialogue in comments should be closer to two researchers thinking about a problem than lawyers cross-examining witnesses in court

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#299

Post by epanchin » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

christiansakai wrote: post #284

dang wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place, so that it can be collapsed and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of the thread.

Sorry I’m not a native English speaker. What does do not cross examine here mean? I thought cross examination is good?

I understand it to mean, do not pick at small faults in others arguments. Cross examination is good in a courtroom trial, but does detract from the flow of conversation.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#300

Post by randallsquared » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

christiansakai wrote: post #284

dang wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place, so that it can be collapsed and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of the thread.

Sorry I’m not a native English speaker. What does do not cross examine here mean? I thought cross examination is good?

Good for fact-finding, if answers are required, but bad for community-building.