America is giving up on the pandemic? • Hacker News Board

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#631

Post by shibeouya » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 2:10 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #194

throwmehaweh wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the epitome of hypocrisy. How could anyone take them seriously now that they’ve shown to be complete frauds? Is it any wonder that half the country doesn’t trust the government lockdowns? “Stay inside”, “don’t gather in groups”, “cancel your wedding”, “wear a mask during sex”, but oh hey, it’s OK to go downtown and riot, burn down buildings, and throw bricks at the police.

>but oh hey, it’s OK to go downtown and riot, burn down buildings, and throw bricks at the police. This is not a good faith depiction of what the protesters are doing.

It absolutely is. There are hundreds of videos of it, don't ignore them because they don't fit your little narrative.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#632

Post by milquetoastaf » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 2:10 AM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #565

achenatx wrote: post #294

Just wanted to add that the abolish the police sentiment isnt as inane as it sounds on the surface. Abolish the police is about taking away responsibilities that police have today and giving them to people more suitable. Police - people trained for aggression with weapons to stop violent criminals should not be handling: 1) mental health 2) homeless 3) drug addiction 4) domestic violence 5) traffic stops etc etc They…

Many police shootings happen at mundane traffic stops. What happens to Not Police in these situations? https://youtu.be/LsrC5QV_Yrc https://youtu.be/mI4UxURjqEQ https://youtu.be/DbaJTuoLpWM https://youtu.be/-yUnT5aFygg https://youtu.be/4i86SUNFFzs You want unarmed people doing this? Your Not Police would be getting killed in any of those.

But in almost all of those videos it didn't make a difference whether the police had guns or not?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#633

Post by baddox » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 2:10 AM UTC

skissane wrote: post #626

baddox wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a good argument to expand unemployment benefits during a global pandemic, and I suspect most public health officials would agree.

A number of countries have implemented wage subsidy schemes, in which the government pays employers to keep employees on payroll even while there is no work for them to do due to the COVID-19 lockdown. Those schemes are in some ways better than unemployment benefits, in that they maintain the employer-employee relationship which increases the odds the job will still be there to go back to when the crisis is over. UK:…

That makes sense. I intended to refer broadly to programs to compensate people due to lockdown-related reductions in income.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#634

Post by gbpz » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 2:11 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #214

mberning wrote: post #2

Why shouldn’t they? People were browbeaten for having the audacity to want to return to work. Now politicians are out marching shoulder to shoulder with thousands of other people. We also were told that Georgia was going to be a disaster for reopening too soon and that has not come to pass. It’s good to know that “believe science” and “stay home stay safe” are completely negotiable based on what is politically expedi…

Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. We're here for curious conversation, not tendentious snark. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It is snarky, but an accurate representation of the current climate.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#635

Post by gwright » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

tootie wrote: post #578

Anther wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly there are many such irregularities in today’s socially acceptable right think. A lot of logic is being replaced by emotion.

[flagged]

> Especially when his opinions are factually unfounded and result the gross misuse of public resources.

Factually unfounded? It is pretty clear that opportunists and provacateurs have used the legitimate protests as a shield for their illegal activities.

Protection of property and safety of citizens is "gross misuse of public resources"? Do you think the people living above the stores being vandalized and lit on fire would agree with you?

> Absolutely no one was giving a free pass to looters.

I call shenanigans on this one. The mainstream press has downplayed the looting and violence very consistently conflating criticism of the illegal activities as criticism of the legitimate protests efforts. And there is a vocal minority of voices actually legitimizing the violent activities as an appropriate and necessary extension of the peaceful protests.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#636

Post by remote_phone » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 2:14 AM UTC

vgchh wrote: post #605

Being an American (Naturalized), I am unable to understand where are we headed. It's often said that America always bounces back. That American spirit and innovativeness is unmatched and capable of overcoming any obstacles. However, the current environment feels surreal. We have had the most Covid infections and most deaths in the world. Mass protests against police brutality, being met with more police brutality. Wi…

I think Biden should choose a moderate Republican as his VP. That is the most symbolic choice he could make that he is serious about bringing this country back together. It’s just about the only thing he could do that would unite this country. Going further left will destroy this country, not because I disagree with the policies but because right now we are in a crossroads for this political divisiveness.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#637

Post by closeparen » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 2:16 AM UTC

ken wrote: post #474

Animats wrote: post #304

Total deaths in US caused by police. (2019, full year): 1112 [1] Total deaths in US caused by coronavirus (last Friday, one day): 975 [2] [1] https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

What point are you trying to make? Systemic racism is way bigger than just police killings. Do you want to ignore the (non-lethal) evils of prejudice, and just play a numbers game with fatalities? From some back-of-the-envelope math, the average POC in America will still lose more years of their life from simply living in a racist society than from COVID-19. Life isn't a pissing contest of "my problem is bigger than…

It's really hard not to read this as "my mass killing is okay because I have a good reason." I assume that's not what you mean. Can you help clarify the differences between deaths downstream of these mass gatherings and deaths downstream of more conventional violence?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#638

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 2:18 AM UTC

gridspy wrote: post #574

humaniania wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC revised their risk estimates towards the end of last month. "The fifth scenario is the CDC's "current best estimate about viral transmission and disease severity in the United States." In that scenario, the agency described its estimate that 0.4% of people who feel sick with Covid-19 will die. For people age 65 and older, the CDC puts that number at 1.3%. For people 49 and under, the agency estimated that 0.0…

Even if you do not die, you might have a very unpleasant experience with lasting consequences. Perhaps a better way to frame it would be - 2% (?) of patients have serious life-changing consequences. Those under 49 tend to survive them.

> serious life-changing consequences

This is a much more interesting data point.

Death tends to have very few ongoing life-altering consequences, and in and of itself has a very low R0.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#639

Post by pwdisswordfish2 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 2:18 AM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #398

dang wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place, so that it can be collapsed and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of the thread.

Why has a question mark been added to the title here? IMO by HN's usual standards it makes it a worse title, not better. I assume it's to present it as a debate for discussion rather than appear partisan? (Let me say here I'm British, live in the UK, don't really care for US politics, at that level at least.) But we have controversial titles all the time that are presented as fact (the author's opinion, the author's…

The title is the dominant initial condition.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23353829

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#640

Post by slavik81 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 2:18 AM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #358

caconym_ wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where'd they "tell us there is no risk from these protests"? The letter you linked explicitly advises us to "prepare for an increased number of infections in the days following a protest [and] provide increased access to testing and care for people in the affected communities, especially when they or their family members put themselves at risk by attending protests." They just seem to think protesting America's rampa…

> They just seem to think protesting America's rampant institutionalized police brutality is more worthy than protesting the lockdowns themselves That can’t possibly be a valid scientific opinion on the basis of public health data — until recently the virus was killing more people per day than the police kill in an entire year. It’s a political opinion and this was a political letter. From now on, when public health…

Policy prescriptions are always political. Science is a method of creating accurate predictions. It's a valuable tool to inform your decisions, but it fundamentally cannot tell you what you should do. Deciding which outcome is most desirable is a value judgement that has no scientific answer.