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America is giving up on the pandemic?

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Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#621

Post by gwright »

vore wrote: post #346
calidreaming wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

1.) I don't agree with taking such "both sides" a view of equating the two: BLM protests are about protesting police brutality, religious congregations are not. Quarantine protests are underplaying the dangers of coronavirus: people participating in BLM protests, by and large, have no misconceptions of coronavirus. Whether or not you prioritize this above or below police brutality is of course something you place on…

> 1.) I don't agree with taking such "both sides" a view of equating the two: BLM protests are about protesting police brutality, religious congregations are not

It isn't a matter of equating the perceived importance of the gatherings. It is a matter of the government not being content neutral in its actions. If the government is going to restrict public (and private!) gatherings for public health reasons, the restrictions can't be selective based on the speech content of the gatherings.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#622

Post by JamesBarney »

humaniania wrote: post #553
smsm42 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Which most people would take as implying it's not actually risky - even though they are not saying that. They…

The CDC revised their risk estimates towards the end of last month. "The fifth scenario is the CDC's "current best estimate about viral transmission and disease severity in the United States." In that scenario, the agency described its estimate that 0.4% of people who feel sick with Covid-19 will die. For people age 65 and older, the CDC puts that number at 1.3%. For people 49 and under, the agency estimated that 0.0…

Those CDC numbers are really weird btw. 0.4% of symptomatic cases is like a 0.2-0.3% IFR.

0.3% of the New York City population has already died of corona-virus. So assuming everyone in New York was infected that gives us an IFR of .3%. But if a more realistic 20% of the population was infected then the IFR could be as high as 1.5%.

I tried going through all the most recent research and almost all of it came up with an IFR in the 0.5-1.2% range. And the few that had a lower rate were looking at anti-body tests in places with very low base rates.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#623

Post by g8tor »

metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

It seems like there's an epidemic of fear & fake righteousness in the US. People cowed into taking counterfactual emotive positions by fear of lynching at the hands of hostile commentariat, now possessed of actual foot soldiers in the streets, itself too scared, or perhaps too drunk on its imagined righteousness, to do anything else.

As someone wise once said the greatest misfortune in the world is to have an enemy. It's sad to see US with so many enemies seemingly within. Like a body racked with disease.

An epidemic of emotive counterfactual fake narratives cannot be a good thing for society. I believe current events indicate this. Providing evidence narrative corruption can spill over into disastrous physical consequences. There must be a cure.

Counter-narratives must be deployed. Discourse reform form must occur. Positive censorship and propaganda must be empowered to act like an immune system for the mass consciousness. A media complicit in propagating these divisive lies that fakejustify violence is a media that invites regulation. Does America have the will & the courage to heal itself?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#624

Post by wendyshu »

tobias3 wrote: post #115

We had large BLM demonstrations yesterday here in Germany. Demonstrators did not follow Corona virus rules (compared to e.g. fridays for future). If COVID-19 spreads in those circumstances (outside, mostly with masks, but close contact + chanting), this'll have been the last of those demonstrations here.

Are black people in Germany especially abused by the police?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#625

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Animats wrote: post #304

Total deaths in US caused by police. (2019, full year): 1112 [1] Total deaths in US caused by coronavirus (last Friday, one day): 975 [2] [1] https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Not many lives are ended via homicide vs other ways of dying (eg heart disease), but it’s just the unfairness and preventability that makes people angry about the former. Injustice also creates stress inn society, it is difficult to live with it.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#626

Post by skissane »

baddox wrote: post #614
fennecfoxen wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Unemployment is generally regarded as a public health risk, beyond the immediate insurance consequences. There will moreover be people who suffer long-term impacts that these short-term payments can only partially mitigate.

That seems like a good argument to expand unemployment benefits during a global pandemic, and I suspect most public health officials would agree.

A number of countries have implemented wage subsidy schemes, in which the government pays employers to keep employees on payroll even while there is no work for them to do due to the COVID-19 lockdown. Those schemes are in some ways better than unemployment benefits, in that they maintain the employer-employee relationship which increases the odds the job will still be there to go back to when the crisis is over.

UK: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wages-through-the-coro...

Australia: https://www.ato.gov.au/general/jobkeeper-payment/

New Zealand: https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/other-type...

Ireland: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemploymen...

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#627

Post by orange8 »

Animats wrote: post #304

Total deaths in US caused by police. (2019, full year): 1112 [1] Total deaths in US caused by coronavirus (last Friday, one day): 975 [2] [1] https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Comparing apples to apples:

Average daily deaths in US caused by heart disease: 1800

Average daily deaths in US caused by cancer: 1600

Average daily deaths in US caused by corona virus: 1000

https://www.healthline.com/health/leading-causes-of-death

Comparing oranges to oranges:

Total deaths in US caused by homicide (2019): 19510

Total deaths in US caused by police (2019): 1112

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Comparing apples to oranges:

> Total deaths in US caused by police. (2019, full year): 1112 [1]

> Total deaths in US caused by coronavirus (last Friday, one day): 975 [2]

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#628

Post by shibeouya »

thu2111 wrote: post #333
turndown wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I don't disagree with that, but when the name is a "throwaway", it is a new account, and its only posts are half explanations of simplifications or just outright lies on highly divisive topics, I have no issue connecting the dots.

Which parts are outright lies? The now flagged and dead post said this: “Stay inside”, “don’t gather in groups”, “cancel your wedding”, “wear a mask during sex”, but oh hey, it’s OK to go downtown and riot, burn down buildings, and throw bricks at the police. These things are all true of the UK. As someone with a family member in the UK I can assure you they had to cancel their wedding, they were limited to an hour o…

Amen. I will never ever trust an expert's opinion again, and I know many others who are equally disgusted.

This is a sad day for science and these experts should be ashamed.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#629

Post by gbpz »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #493

There's every reason we should see a good increase in cv19 spreading, because there is no reason for it not to. Washington State's daily number on Sunday, June 7 is 450 new pos cases, [1] which was last seen on the first of April. 2 months later coming back to early April numbers. [2]. We are testing 50% more per day (about 4k/day in early April, 6k/day now). Even though we increased testing by 50%, it was only recen…

The haircut comments drive me up the wall, particularly if you know someone who owns a small business and their accompanying struggles. Economic money movement was stalled, which can have an enormous impact on livelihood. While I can absolutely understand being critical of when protestors wanted things to re-open, it shows a deliberate attempt at being unable to empathize.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#630

Post by tayo42 »

redisman wrote: post #30
rohitb91 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that public assembly is essential regardless of what is going on. But why were the people protesting the lock downs and business shutdowns and the limiting of freedoms the yahoos and crazy murderers? Why did nurses block them from protesting but not one would block someone now?

What ever the answer is (and I don’t think there’s a non-partisan one), we’re screwed. Hopefully we’ll get new data on masks giving us a 80/20 solution since I don’t think either side of the political divide is going to buy the stay-at-home order much longer. “How come they can break it but we can’t?”

The anti lock down people were allowed to protest. With weapons publicly displayed too...

This isn't a fair question, people will protest and go back to their lock down down life. Reopening is sustained interaction.

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