America is giving up on the pandemic? • Hacker News Board

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#231

Post by jbritton » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:23 PM UTC

bryant wrote: post #107

axguscbklp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are the protests really founded on something significant? If they focused simply on police brutality regardless of race, that would be one thing, but the general narrative seems to be that there is a big problem of white-on-black violence in the form of cops. Now, there is such a problem, but this ignores the wider context that in this country, black-on-white violence is a much bigger problem than white-on-black…

[flagged]

This population measurement is not useful for determining racism. It does not consider that blacks make up 13% of the population, but commit 52% of the homicides. It doesn’t consider if the shootings are justified. It doesn’t consider black cops shooting black suspects.

There is in general insufficient data to support or reject that there is systemic racism.

Here is a good article on things to consider https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/08/police-officer-shooti...

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#232

Post by n9 » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:23 PM UTC

glofish wrote: post #124

monadic2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, mask usage is seriously high at these protests. I’ll literally be marching down the street and see folks on rooftop bars, beers in hand, elbow to elbow, not a mask in sight. that scares me more than a protest where you can freely trail behind at distance.

masks, when worn by the general (or asymptomatic) population have not been proven to reduce the spread of SARS-COV-2 - no seriously there is no evidence to support mask usage - the belief that mask do anything is nothing more than a superstition - the virus take the form of an an aerosol that is not stopped by a little cotton thing in front of your nose do you honestly believe that a little rag in front of your mouth…

The studies that show that masks reduce the R0 of COVID-19 are many and broad. https://www.livescience.com/face-masks-eye-protection-covid-... The latest ones that I have read indicate an 85% reduction of transmission and infection between two people wearing masks, a double 85% reduction.

Where is an instance of a study that indicates the opposite? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#233

Post by downerending » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

garrickvanburen wrote: post #212

No, not giving up. Just reprioritized. All I think we’ve proven is that a large percentage of the population is more comfortable risking a infection and far less comfortable with the police violence. There’s nothing in here about disregarding recommendations from epidemiologists. It’s about saying enough is enough on a persistent threat, not an acute one.

> a large percentage of the population is more comfortable risking a infection and far less comfortable with the police violence

The chances of experiencing life-changing injury or death from either are vanishingly small. Too bad we can't get people this excited about obeying traffic regulations.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#234

Post by kortilla » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

messick wrote: post #199

jl6 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that 300-1000 unjustified deaths, or does it also include situations where the use of deadly force may have been reasonable?

I guess it’s certainly “possible” that US cops justifiably shoot and kill more people every year than most counties have done of the last hundred (assuming they have ever done it at all), just not very possible.

More citizens are armed in the US. Deadly force is required more frequently because of that.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#235

Post by stonogo » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

neonate wrote: post #200

Barrin92 wrote: post #4

The concerns are right but public assembly is critical in a democracy, and cannot be put on hold indefinitely. It's probably the most fundamental right in any civil society and with all these takes I have seen on twitter about COVID and the protests, a lot of people seem to seriously unerestimate the value that free assembly has. Covid as bad as it is will be an issue of the near future, civil rights gains or losses…

The issue is the double standard with which some protestors were condemned while others were lauded based solely on which causes (and which classes of people) the commenters happened to politically support. It's transparently unprincipled, to the point of being a sad joke.

That's not a double standard. That's just a standard. When one group of people is holding signs that say "stop murdering people" and the other group is holding signs that say "I need a haircut," and you're mad that "the commenters" are not treating them the same, the problem is not with the commenters.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#236

Post by n9 » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #155

Barrin92 wrote: post #4

The concerns are right but public assembly is critical in a democracy, and cannot be put on hold indefinitely. It's probably the most fundamental right in any civil society and with all these takes I have seen on twitter about COVID and the protests, a lot of people seem to seriously unerestimate the value that free assembly has. Covid as bad as it is will be an issue of the near future, civil rights gains or losses…

Did you also support the protests against the lockdown, with the same justification?

One can support the rights of any americans to freely assemble while being puzzled and horrified at the reason for the protest. To wit: I would support the right of assembly for anti-vaccination advocates and would support the ACLU in defending those rights. Hoewever, I feel that Anti-vaccination advocates are wrong, their actions are destructive and they horrify me.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#237

Post by austincheney » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

newbie789 wrote: post #182

austincheney wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assembly is important but perhaps not the most important form of dissent. Yes, I am citing Mill as evidence. > having a memorable book title does not make a permanently relevant tome that applies to all of history backward and forward. The definition of liberty has not changed, so yes that essay still equally applies.

Thank you for your clarification that the post was entirely a critique of a single bit of word choice. Out of curiosity, what other philosophers do you consider to be so absolutely correct (and so clear in their statements that misinterpretation is impossible) that rise to the level of proof or evidence when cited?

I cannot provide a good answer for this. I do believe that Descartes’ Meditations are perhaps the most misinterpreted.

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Meditations_on_First_Philos...

This is what people reference when they say: I think, therefore I am. I find that is not at all accurate to the writing. Really it says a thinking machine that can doubt can doubt away all things but doubting itself so then that ability must exist.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#238

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

ac29 wrote: post #22

Daily new deaths have been steadily falling even as states continue to ease or eliminate restrictions [0]: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ This article seems to completely ignore that, instead focusing on positive test results, even though the vast majority of infections are mild or even completely asymptomatic. If anything, America is giving up on the breathless projections of mass die off that…

[deleted]

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#239

Post by robocat » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #201

Animats wrote: post #14

San Mateo County health officer: "The third modification of the shelter in place order is being made on 6/1/20. These modifications are being made in attempt to strike a balance. They are an attempt to find a way to increase the immunity of the population (in public health terms, this is called “herd immunity”) slowly and methodically, while minimizing premature death, with equity in mind, while not overloading the h…

Also, don't forget to wash your hands. We don't yet know how effective masks are but we have mountains of evidence showing that hand washing works.

My prediction is that hand washing turns out to be unimportant.

I believe the vast majority of cases are transmitted by respiration, and the recent news that super-spreaders dominate transmission will eventually find that they spread the disease by air, not by contact or fomites.

I have yet to see any evidence that washing hands reduces transmission by any significant amount (say 5%).

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#240

Post by Nasrudith » Sun, Jun 07, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

neonate wrote: post #200

Barrin92 wrote: post #4

The concerns are right but public assembly is critical in a democracy, and cannot be put on hold indefinitely. It's probably the most fundamental right in any civil society and with all these takes I have seen on twitter about COVID and the protests, a lot of people seem to seriously unerestimate the value that free assembly has. Covid as bad as it is will be an issue of the near future, civil rights gains or losses…

The issue is the double standard with which some protestors were condemned while others were lauded based solely on which causes (and which classes of people) the commenters happened to politically support. It's transparently unprincipled, to the point of being a sad joke.

That isn't a double standard but a fundamental result of judgement of costs, values, and outcomes. Somebody who shoots an armed and dangerous spree shooter is lauded as heroic while someone who shoots a kid thought they was shoplifting a one dollar drink is regarded as a psychopath with no regard for human life. Circumstances and outcomes vary, a form of 'neutrality' that ignores that fundamentally isn't a useful metric.