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A New Cold War Has Begun (2019)

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Re: A New Cold War Has Begun (2019)

#61

Post by asjw »

champagneben wrote: post #52
NineStarPoint wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what Trump represents to allies is not just an oscilating to conservative control. It represents the willingness of the american public to put someone in charge of foreign policy that has a complete disrespect for America’s allies, and a strong willingness to turn America more isolationist and less supportive of free trade. Ultimately, I don’t think Trump alone will really effect things long term though, no. If i…

When Germans elect a Chancellor who doesn't make sure that Germany meet their NATO commitments are they being disrespectful to their allies? I understand that the comment may come off a bit incendiary, but I'm genuinely asking.

In fact they don't tweet like a crazy man

They use official channels

Which is the respectful way

Re: A New Cold War Has Begun (2019)

#62

Post by gumby »

dkural wrote: post #54
sametmax wrote: post #11

Why does everything has to be a war with the US?

It's not. US tried to stay out of both World Wars, and was very cooperative with Stalin at the end of WWII. It was dragged into Vietnam by the French. North Korea attacked first. The wars in the Middle East after 9/11, you're right though.

Also “war on drugs” “war on poverty”...absurdism.

The US stayed legally out of the war in Europe due yes to a strong isolationist movement but also a strong pro-german movement. Without committing troops, Roosevelt tacitly involved the US in the European war (enough deniability that congress would not interfere) and specifically mounted a petroleum embargo in Japan leading to the Japanese decision to bomb Pearl Harbor (not at all blaming the victim — USA — for Japan’s decision). I don’t think you can say though that the us tried to stay out.

“Very cooperative with Stalin at the end of WWII” is hardly borne out by the historical record. The US invaded the USSR during its revolution, and long before Yalta both countries were jockeying for post-war position once it became clear that victory over Germany was inevitable.

The French asked for help yes but it was no treaty matter (not a NATO issue): the US willingly intervened in both Korea and Viet Nam because of communists being on the other side.

Re: A New Cold War Has Begun (2019)

#63

Post by gumby »

scottlocklin wrote: post #47

>For several decades, China’s breakneck development was seen positively in the United States, and the relatively enlightened authoritarianism of Deng Xiaoping and his successors was easily tolerated It was seen positively because our ruling caste of self-regarding morons thought China was more likely to become a liberal democracy as they became more prosperous and integrated with the world economy. An obvious delusio…

I think things are far from obvious, at the time, retrospectively, or even now. It’s still early times for the Chinese revolution and I think there’s still a good chance of China becoming more democratic in the next half a century. Xi is literally a child of the revolution and when that generation is gone, the middle classes will have no connection to the old guard.

Re: A New Cold War Has Begun (2019)

#64

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

sametmax wrote: post #38
0x8BADF00D wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No country is perfect, especially the United States. How many war crimes have been committed in the last 50 years? China is not the enemy. We could learn a lot of positive things from them.

China is in competition with a lot of countries, and in a race for power. And it is a bloody dictature. That's not the point. The point is: why does the US has to formulate systematically its antagonist positions as a War? Given they have the biggest army in the world, this is the best way to have the most violent resolution of this antagonism.

That is due to the military industrial complex, which incentivizes the use of the American war machine.

Re: A New Cold War Has Begun (2019)

#65

Post by NineStarPoint »

champagneben wrote: post #52
NineStarPoint wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what Trump represents to allies is not just an oscilating to conservative control. It represents the willingness of the american public to put someone in charge of foreign policy that has a complete disrespect for America’s allies, and a strong willingness to turn America more isolationist and less supportive of free trade. Ultimately, I don’t think Trump alone will really effect things long term though, no. If i…

When Germans elect a Chancellor who doesn't make sure that Germany meet their NATO commitments are they being disrespectful to their allies? I understand that the comment may come off a bit incendiary, but I'm genuinely asking.

In as much as the other members of NATO (particularly the US, who is the primary funder of NATO) care about those commitments, yes. Which is to say, I’m not sure how much it maters historically when the US did not seem to particularly care. Now that the US has brought up the matter, to not make an effort to spend more is disrespectful to me.

(But the concept of disrespect aside, I would consider allies not fulfilling the agreements of a treaty made to lower my trust in them to fulfill the obligations of current and future agreements. And that trust is also quite important.)

Re: A New Cold War Has Begun (2019)

#66

Post by scottlocklin »

gumby wrote: post #63
scottlocklin wrote: post #47

>For several decades, China’s breakneck development was seen positively in the United States, and the relatively enlightened authoritarianism of Deng Xiaoping and his successors was easily tolerated It was seen positively because our ruling caste of self-regarding morons thought China was more likely to become a liberal democracy as they became more prosperous and integrated with the world economy. An obvious delusio…

I think things are far from obvious, at the time, retrospectively, or even now. It’s still early times for the Chinese revolution and I think there’s still a good chance of China becoming more democratic in the next half a century. Xi is literally a child of the revolution and when that generation is gone, the middle classes will have no connection to the old guard.

I think the best you can hope for from China is Singapore -a business oriented Mosleyan fascism. Considering the lack of British influence there: this seems ridiculously optimistic to me. China will be Chinese.

Western "Democracy" doesn't appear to be some universal desire of peoples; it's as far as can be told from observation a particularist ideology of Anglo and Franco Europeans. Russia's flirtation with "Democracy" (basically, being a US satellite) ended up being chaotic gansterism accompanied by mass death, and they reverted to their historical mean of being run by a strong man and seem to be happier and better off for it.

Re: A New Cold War Has Begun (2019)

#67

Post by mleonhard »

walterbell wrote: post #25
caseysoftware wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think China is going anywhere for at least a generation. If you dig into the collapse of most countries/empires/super powers, they collapse from either: - External pressures - foreign influence through military/conquering, investment, or mass immigration. With the exception of Taiwan, China has been effective in reducing or at least controlling all of those. And even that may be cracking where you see groups…

> It appears that under the policy, huge swathes of people just didn't report daughters being born. There's a generation of women who simply don't exist. How do they work/travel/pay without ID?

Fake ID.

Re: A New Cold War Has Begun (2019)

#68

Post by gumby »

scottlocklin wrote: post #66
gumby wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think things are far from obvious, at the time, retrospectively, or even now. It’s still early times for the Chinese revolution and I think there’s still a good chance of China becoming more democratic in the next half a century. Xi is literally a child of the revolution and when that generation is gone, the middle classes will have no connection to the old guard.

I think the best you can hope for from China is Singapore -a business oriented Mosleyan fascism. Considering the lack of British influence there: this seems ridiculously optimistic to me. China will be Chinese. Western "Democracy" doesn't appear to be some universal desire of peoples; it's as far as can be told from observation a particularist ideology of Anglo and Franco Europeans. Russia's flirtation with "Democrac…

Korea, Taiwan and Japan seem pretty happy with it. India, mostly, too. Then of course many smaller countries like Mauritius, Botswana...

Re: A New Cold War Has Begun (2019)

#69

Post by mleonhard »

sametmax wrote: post #11

Why does everything has to be a war with the US?

One possible explanation is that the author is a shill for Israel. He served in Israel's military. He has some publications with Israelis, such as "The Glory of the Holy Land."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Kaplan#Early_life_an...

Israel benefits heavily from US militarization and US belligerence toward non-allies.

Israel invests a lot of money on lobbying US politicians and on PR to influence the US public. I'm not sure how much they spend. Israel receives $3B in military aid from US every year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs...

Re: A New Cold War Has Begun (2019)

#70

Post by scottlocklin »

gumby wrote: post #68
scottlocklin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best you can hope for from China is Singapore -a business oriented Mosleyan fascism. Considering the lack of British influence there: this seems ridiculously optimistic to me. China will be Chinese. Western "Democracy" doesn't appear to be some universal desire of peoples; it's as far as can be told from observation a particularist ideology of Anglo and Franco Europeans. Russia's flirtation with "Democrac…

Korea, Taiwan and Japan seem pretty happy with it. India, mostly, too. Then of course many smaller countries like Mauritius, Botswana...

South Korea with its long history of democracy dating from the early 90s... Had a little help from giant US embassies and military bases in the middle of it for the last 70 years. Imagine if it weren't a US "ally" what it would look like. The idea that things are the way they are today because of some inevitable movement of history rather than submission to pressures from the world hegemon; pretty sure that idea won't survive historical scrutiny.

I suppose I could be wrong though! Our state department informs me that I am wrong!

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