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Mental Wealth

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Re: Mental Wealth

#251

Post by bonoboTP »

CaptArmchair wrote: post #246
bonoboTP wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very hard to give advice in general. That's why the wise teachers used to mentor mentees one on one, there's little wisdom that applies in all circumstances. Advice expresses a direction, and if you are already too far in the other way, you need to be pointed backwards. If you think all it takes is willpower and you force and force till you break down and conclude that you're just worthless, then you're doing it…

Don't get me wrong here. I hold a similar frame of reference towards my own mental state and my own thinking. But at the same time, it's important to recognize that there's far to the story then this. Mental health is just as much rooted and so many other factors not in the least social and economic circumstances. This just half the story. The other half is actually the difficult part of addressing root causes. Such…

I understand where you're coming from. I have similar thoughts when people try to blame individual choices for environmental issues, and put little pictograms and cute comics that teach you to always make sure not to leave taps running and other tiny tips that pale in relation to what effects industrial water use has. Putting the focus on the individual can result in forgetting another much bigger contributor.

So I see that not just this article, but articles like this in general floating around half-assedly in public consciousness can create an atmosphere where the attitude is that everyone who is down there got there by their lack of will, by their corrupt soul, and deserve it etc. which seems to be a common framing in the US. I don't live in the US and I myself are pretty far from that framing and may be too blind to its bad effects. So by all means, fighting for political change and for creating a social net that catches people and bounces them back up is very important.

But certainly in another sense, for a particular person it's a bad strategy to wait for others to pull them out of the mud. It may never happen. There are plenty of people who remain in that type of cycle, get all types of disease, die early etc. There won't be any dramatic music or moral lesson in the end, they just die with perhaps few people caring about even that fact. I like the quote "Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can." It's also similar to the Christian idea of Christ embracing the sinful and loves them in their humanity as they are right now, not only in some idealized version of them. Or the 12 step program for addicts, etc. If you take note of where you are, you can make a deliberate small move to where you want to be, instead of doing a random walk. Of course this only benefits you in some sense, but after a while it can expand and snowball to improvements for your family etc.

The top-down solution and the bottom-up solution can and should coexist.

Re: Mental Wealth

#252

Post by christiansakai »

nazka wrote: post #248
pow_pp_-1_v wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - People who are too passionate about one thing People who are passionate about something are generally interesting people. They know the obscure ins and outs of the thing they are passionate about. You can learn a lot from such people. At least, that's what I always felt.

I’m not sure if you add a point or misunderstood but OP said: “people who are -Too- passionate about one thing”. OP is only talking about people who are too involved in what they are doing, and not people with a lot of passion, and so this having bad effects on their life with neglecting the other important part of their life. If it’s to be work by being workalcolic, video games, music... and being so involved that k…

Thanks for clarifying. Indeed this is what I meant. I probably should use the word “overly” instead of “too” here to make it clearer.

Re: Mental Wealth

#253

Post by banads »

nitrogen wrote: post #241
banads wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civilized societies are definitely able to produce more food, and shelter at scale using industrial techniques.

I think the original criteria was "easily accessible at a low tech level". Civilized societies are efficient and can access difficult-to-reach resources. It seems the OP's argument is that to be a tribal society you need easier-to-access resources, resources that are now controlled by the civilized society.

You're right, I think I misread their meaning. Even though still now that I understand it, tribes still exist across the world living in extremely inhospitable environments with very scarce resources, and they still manage to have much stronger community ties than many civilized socieities.

Re: Mental Wealth

#254

Post by CaptArmchair »

CrazyStat wrote: post #247
onion2k wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Here are some things you can do to proactively manage your mental health, rather than ignoring it until you have a crisis" is in no way putting 100% of the responsibility on the individual. The problem is that the implication of articles like this one is that if you don't do those things any resulting mental health problems are your own fault. It reinforces the awful reasoning stupid people use like "Oh, you didn't…

So we just shouldn't talk about things that you can do to maintain mental health? Should we also stop talking about preventative dental care?

No.

My original comment intended to discuss mental health by pointing out that the author skipped several fundamental aspects and instead packaged general advice points and tried to sell it as "investing in mental wealth".

My criticism is that the article could have said:

Here's some great basic overall advice that helps you day-to-day. But let's acknowledge that mental health isn't shaped in a vacuum. Environmental and societal issues do have a big impact on the experience of individuals. And unless there's an honest debate about that, many people will keep on struggling.

Equally, it's perfectly valid to talk about preventative dental care. But let's also acknowledge that dental health doesn't exist in a void and that it is very much tied into one's socio-economic place in society, and the affordances that allow one to maintain their dental health in the first place.

Re: Mental Wealth

#255

Post by lxeiqr »

britr wrote: post #233
lxeiqr wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from the "People who are too passionate about one thing" part, I can 100% agree with you. Over the past few years I've changed from a rather sad person obsessed over topics others would find barely relevant (kids, don't do /g/) to a person that's rather satisfied with his own life. I still care about these previously mentioned topics, but it's not something that'd make me throw insults at someone if they didn't…

"Throwing insults to anyone who disagrees" and being too passionate about one thing are not necessarily correlated. I can imagine someone being extremely passionate and still respectful.

By being obsessed over a topic I meant that back then I'd take any kind of criticism as a personal attack or just presume that everyone's not educated enough on it, instantly resorting to using "ad hominem" arguments myself. Thankfully, today I'm a completely different person. Being passionate about something is something completely else that I personally consider beautiful in its own way.

Re: Mental Wealth

#256

Post by nonbirithm »

bonoboTP wrote: post #196
nonbirithm wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that statements like "you are not okay" can be misconstrued depending on the mentality of the subject. The simplistic version of this is telling a depressed person they should "lighten up." But such a person may not have the resources to just change their mood on a whim, and when they also realize this and internalize it, they may become defensive. If they are unable to follow this "simple advice" to jus…

It's very hard to give advice in general. That's why the wise teachers used to mentor mentees one on one, there's little wisdom that applies in all circumstances. Advice expresses a direction, and if you are already too far in the other way, you need to be pointed backwards. If you think all it takes is willpower and you force and force till you break down and conclude that you're just worthless, then you're doing it…

> When we say something is "bad" it just a shorthand to mean we don't want it to be like that. It isn't bad deep down in the fabric of the physical universe. The universe is very aloof and unresponsive and ignorant of what we want or not. It's not trying to spite you when you fail, it just doesn't know what the hell we want from it.

This is a good way to view it, thanks.

I'm just trying to figure out how humans, with personal intentions of constructing things, fit into this framework.

Re: Mental Wealth

#257

Post by vlasev »

jungletime wrote: post #102

Improving access to nature would go a long way to improve city dwellers sense of mental health and well being. Especially making it easier for owning a cottage. 1) I live in Canada, a giant country. But camping is super expensive, $50/night camping. Its unaffordable for any length of time. And many provincial parks sell out. 2) Buying a small piece of land and hand building a tiny cottage is basically outlawed in Ont…

Regarding 3), maybe it's just a small exception, but in Toronto's Chinatown you can see that a lot of the houses have gardens with vegetables. It's just that the overall lots are small and the gardens are small. But they are still there.

In Vancouver, even downtown, there are a number of community gardens with various vegetables growing.

Re: Mental Wealth

#258

Post by vlasev »

What I rarely see, if ever, is writing and guides on what to do with yourself when life throws a wrench at you. I find it's not difficult to eat well, sleep well, exercise well when times are alright. But then if something bad happens to me, all of that goes out the window and it can be quite difficult to go back. I think most of us have difficulty with these things on smaller or larger scales.

Re: Mental Wealth

#259

Post by AlecSchueler »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #61
mfcl wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the riots are just a symptom. And of course a lot of people of in those riots are not there for the cause. Would there be riots right now had Floyd not been killed? Have you even seen a riot started out of nothing? Just for fun? I doesn't change the original point that if a politician's first goal is to stop the riots, it's only to cover a symptom while the real problem is not fixed. And it's a matter of ti…

> Have you even seen a riot started out of nothing? Just for fun? It's a pretty well-known phenomenon. You hold a sports riot when your team wins , not when it loses.

In Northern Ireland it's known as "recreational rioting!"

Re: Mental Wealth

#260

Post by agent008t »

TuringNYC wrote: post #89
agent008t wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please give some examples of the changes you have made?

I'm not the OP, but I made many changes I'd love to share. They have been very simple -- trade off salary for time. And trade that time for health. I took a somewhat lower salary so I can have a lower commute. My commute currently is 5min drive (never), 20min metro, 60min walk, or 15min leisurely cycling. I usually choose the walk or bike, unless it is raining. I have not driven even once to work in 2.5yrs. Similarly…

I find fairly crowded parks in the middle of big cities are not even close to nature trails. It would be interesting if the work-from-home culture takes hold and allows more people to live closer to nature.
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