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Uber Eats removes delivery fee for Black-owned restaurants

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Re: Uber Eats removes delivery fee for Black-owned restaurants

#81

Post by mrcorona »

sshumaker wrote: post #53
champagneben wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are black restaurant owners an oppressed group?

Being a person of color in the US absolutely means you are confronting systemic racism throughout your life. So absolutely, yes, compared to white restaurant owners. Example: If you are black, you are less likely to get a small business loan, and if so you are likely to get worse rates [1]. They also are encountering more resistance to accessing COVID-19 bailout funds [2]. These are just two examples specific to bein…

People still seem unaware of these basic facts... And we've had black history month for how many years?

The education system in America is truly lacking and it shows when it comes to the topic of race/racism which is a key part of our economic history and inextricably tied to the history and development of US capitalism.

Re: Uber Eats removes delivery fee for Black-owned restaurants

#82

Post by jmull »

wutbrodo wrote: post #77
jmull wrote: post #69

Comments here show a lot of people don’t really know what racism is. Now is an important time to learn, so please read. Racism if the belief that race is the basis for determining that one group of people is superior to another group. Specifically, it is NOT acknowledging that their are differences in the circumstances and opportunities people have based on race. Nor, necessarily , treating people differently based o…

While narrowly correct, this barely rises above the level of pedantry. As I'm sure you're aware, racism is in common use as a short form for "racial discrimination", of which this is uncontroversially an example. Unless you object to white nationalist separatists being called racists, on grounds that wanting a separate white homeland doesn't require any belief in racial superiority? (Or the more mundane form, people…

Wow.

No surprise racism is as strong and prevalent as ever.

You will continue to be mystified and confused about why people are as upset as they are if you refuse to understand what the issue actually is.

Let's just start with the first thing: the idea that white nationalists separatists do not view white people as superior is nonsensical on its face.

> This isn't the fact-check "lesson" you think it is; it just pedantic apologia for racial discrimination that shows your own narrow understanding of the situation more than anything else.

I am sad you see it this way. We've got a long way to go. Just try to open up your mind a little. I feel you have the potential or you would not have even responded.

Re: Uber Eats removes delivery fee for Black-owned restaurants

#83

Post by sshumaker »

Orou wrote: post #72
sshumaker wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more useful definition from So you want to talk about race: Racism is any prejudice against someone because of their race, when those views are reinforced by systems of power. This definition is useful in the sense that it helps focus efforts on what needs to be addressed - systemic racism - vs trying to convince 100% of individuals to stop being racists in their day-to-day.

> Racism is any prejudice against someone because of their race, when those views are reinforced by systems of power. The addition of "systems of power" to the definition of racism is a recent one, and it blurs the lines between "racism" and "systemic racism" as separate concepts by introducing power dynamics. Having clear definitions for abstract concepts is essential for people to understand each other and (hopeful…

Here’s the argument from the book: how we define racism also determines how we battle it. If we have cancer and it makes us vomit, we can commit to battling nausea and say we’re fighting for our lives, even though the tumor will likely still kill us. When we look at racism simply as “any racial prejudice,” we are entered into a battle to win over the hearts and minds of everyone we encounter—fighting only the symptoms of the cancerous system, not the cancer itself. This is not only an impossible task, it’s a pretty useless one. Getting my neighbor to love people of color might make it easier to hang around him, but it won’t do anything to combat police brutality, racial income inequality, food deserts, or the prison industrial complex.

So using “systems of power” in the definition enables more effective action to address it.

Re: Uber Eats removes delivery fee for Black-owned restaurants

#84

Post by mrcorona »

atlantacrackers wrote: post #46
berdario wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't write inflammatory comments that spread misunderstanding and disinformation. I'm very skeptical of this move, its sustainability in the medium term, and I overall really dislike Uber as a business, but equality is NOT the point. Society is already unequal, you cannot wish it away with a magic wand. The way to address inequality, is to think in terms of equity: http://betterbikeshare.org/2019/10/24/equity…

Seems like Uber is thinks black businesses are not capable of competing in a free market without a handout. Based on your definition, it is explicit racism.

Its a form of economic reparations. When it comes to all the forms of racism blacks have experienced over the past few centuries I find it funny that this is what offends people, "subsidized deliveries".

Re: Uber Eats removes delivery fee for Black-owned restaurants

#85

Post by Isinlor »

sshumaker wrote: post #53
champagneben wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are black restaurant owners an oppressed group?

Being a person of color in the US absolutely means you are confronting systemic racism throughout your life. So absolutely, yes, compared to white restaurant owners. Example: If you are black, you are less likely to get a small business loan, and if so you are likely to get worse rates [1]. They also are encountering more resistance to accessing COVID-19 bailout funds [2]. These are just two examples specific to bein…

Why would they single out black people out of all people of color and other disadvantaged groups?

A lot of minorities are running restaurants.

Re: Uber Eats removes delivery fee for Black-owned restaurants

#86

Post by Glavnokoman »

Scarblac wrote: post #79
Fargren wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of racism is not treating a race different from others. Racism is a belief that one race is better or worse than others, and the politics that arise from that belief. Recognizing that a group has been treated unfairly and compensating for it is not racism.

Strictly speaking racism is the view that different races of human even exist.

Yay! I am a racist then. And you go tell the black guys they do not exist.

Re: Uber Eats removes delivery fee for Black-owned restaurants

#87

Post by wutbrodo »

jmull wrote: post #82
wutbrodo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While narrowly correct, this barely rises above the level of pedantry. As I'm sure you're aware, racism is in common use as a short form for "racial discrimination", of which this is uncontroversially an example. Unless you object to white nationalist separatists being called racists, on grounds that wanting a separate white homeland doesn't require any belief in racial superiority? (Or the more mundane form, people…

Wow. No surprise racism is as strong and prevalent as ever. You will continue to be mystified and confused about why people are as upset as they are if you refuse to understand what the issue actually is. Let's just start with the first thing: the idea that white nationalists separatists do not view white people as superior is nonsensical on its face. > This isn't the fact-check "lesson" you think it is; it just peda…

> No surprise racism is as strong and prevalent as ever

Funny, I feel the same way about your comment. The regressive, dehumanizing impulse most people have to squash everyone into "black guy" or "Asian woman" instead of "full human being whose life can't be reductively captured by their skin color or genitals" is at the root of both old-fashioned racism and the newfangled form you're so enthusiastic about.

> the idea that white nationalists separatists do not view white people as superior is nonsensical on its face.

I'd imagine the overlap is significant with white supremacists, yes. But racial-/ethnonationalists of every race and ethnicity exist, and they're not all supremacists. There's a memeplex out there that races shouldn't mix that's decoupled from any notion of superiority: for anyone not rightly ensconced in their bubble it's not very difficult to come across this in the wild in, eg, the black community. I'm assuming you don't think that every African-American or Japanese or Indian or Arab or Burundian racial essentialist also thinks that they happen to be the master race? If not, it seems absurd to conclude that whites are the one race for whom this belief exists but _never_ among people who doesn't also believe in racial supremacy.

(For what it's worth, I'm pretty opposed to racial separatism, but I'm not ignorant enough to think that it's the same thing as white supremacy. There's a difference between modern Japan and the Third Reich's views on race)

Re: Uber Eats removes delivery fee for Black-owned restaurants

#88

Post by Nextgrid »

wutbrodo wrote: post #71
Nextgrid wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how this will work from a legal point of view. This is a blatant, obvious example of racism, they aren't even attempting to be subtle about it.

It's effectively affirmative action, and there's a long history of legal apologia for it. In the final analysis, the law is interpreted by humans, and if a class of violation (like racism) is popular enough, the system finds a way to excuse it with hand-waving.

Wouldn't defending such lawsuits still cost a lot of money though, even if you end up winning?

Re: Uber Eats removes delivery fee for Black-owned restaurants

#89

Post by jmull »

wutbrodo wrote: post #87
jmull wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. No surprise racism is as strong and prevalent as ever. You will continue to be mystified and confused about why people are as upset as they are if you refuse to understand what the issue actually is. Let's just start with the first thing: the idea that white nationalists separatists do not view white people as superior is nonsensical on its face. > This isn't the fact-check "lesson" you think it is; it just peda…

> No surprise racism is as strong and prevalent as ever Funny, I feel the same way about your comment. The regressive, dehumanizing impulse most people have to squash everyone into "black guy" or "Asian woman" instead of "full human being whose life can't be reductively captured by their skin color or genitals" is at the root of both old-fashioned racism and the newfangled form you're so enthusiastic about. > the ide…

> newfangled form you're so enthusiastic about

I am not redefining racism. Just look it up. Superiority based on race. Merriam-Webster:

: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

I’m not going to post a link. Just type racism into your favorite search engine. You’ve got to decide if you want to learn or not.

> I'm assuming you don't think that every African-American or Japanese or Indian or Arab or Burundian racial essentialist also thinks that they happen to be the master race?

Yes, people who are not white can be racist.

> There's a difference between modern Japan and the Third Reich's views on race)

Absolutely. It’s not like Nazi Germany owned a patent on racism. It could, and does, exist in Japan.

Re: Uber Eats removes delivery fee for Black-owned restaurants

#90

Post by jacobush »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #62
jacobush wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think their move here is illegal. I think it's ill-advised, bad PR, will backfire and probably predatory on the group they are ostensibly trying to help. (Maybe even without them even understanding why.) That all said, I was almost going to downvote your comment, but it made remember how much Uber actually has made a business model out of breaking the law in every country they are active in. Move fast and bre…

Can you go into more detail? I've seen other people hint at that perspective elsewhere in the thread, and I want to understand it, because right now it's just completely mystifying to me. Uber Eats is now charging people extra to order from some restaurants depending on the race of their owners; how is that not a straightforward violation of antidiscrimination law?

It can be viewed as a kind of affirmative action. It’s a contested area but I don’t see Uber convicted over it but even if they were, I wouldn’t call it straightforward, but rather unclear.
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