Live data from Hacker News

How much do we need the police?

npr.org

491–500 of 505 posts

Re: How much do we need the police?

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be more accurate. The protests are caused by the police. But the riots, violence and looting is caused by opportunists and criminals, in many cases instigated and enflamed by white revolutionary anarchists and/or white supremacist cells more than willing to sacrifice minorities and their neighbourhoods to their insane political projects, i.e. blood soaked revolution or race war.

There are multiple reports of agent provocateurs being police agents.

The problem is that here we have a totally new factor in the mix.

People is being freely dossed with tear gas, in the middle of a pandemic that kills attacking lungs. We don't know how a disease that attack lungs could interact with exposure to a lung irritant but probably will not help. We will have an answer, we want it or not, in two weeks.

They are creating a flow of air directly towards the face of people. We don't know if a virus standing in the air could be collected and dragged into the nose, but it seems possible.

Being paranoid, we don't even know with what substance are all of those people being gassed. Who controls that tear gas canisters contain only tear gas? Are those canisters refillable? Are being refilled? By who? We don't know.

The goal of racist people has been always domination of the other races. Selective killings and birth control are not new strategies. Every single racist in the planet has fantasized about killing as many as possible without consequences. In the end is the same if you kill with a bullet, a hug or provoking a mosh pit / covid party. Except that the later are, unfortunately, untraceable.

So increasing the provocation could be seen as a desirable strategy if you are a racist policeman or governor.

And of course from now on, COVID is not the Trumps fault anymore. People had choosen freely to take more risks. Is like an experiment designed carefully to create thousands of new cases in a part of the population.

Re: How much do we need the police?

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are multiple reports of agent provocateurs being police agents.

The problem is that here we have a totally new factor in the mix. People is being freely dossed with tear gas, in the middle of a pandemic that kills attacking lungs. We don't know how a disease that attack lungs could interact with exposure to a lung irritant but probably will not help. We will have an answer, we want it or not, in two weeks. They are creating a flow of air directly towards the face of people. We do…

> Every single racist in the planet has fantasized about killing as many as possible without consequences.

Disturbing. Look up psychological projection, and be more careful what you say.

Re: How much do we need the police?

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You confuse something that is bad in practice with something that is bad in theory

I confuse nothing, I simply care not for theory when practice shows it is bunk

Water is contaminated therefore there is no need for water.

Re: How much do we need the police?

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that here we have a totally new factor in the mix. People is being freely dossed with tear gas, in the middle of a pandemic that kills attacking lungs. We don't know how a disease that attack lungs could interact with exposure to a lung irritant but probably will not help. We will have an answer, we want it or not, in two weeks. They are creating a flow of air directly towards the face of people. We do…

> Every single racist in the planet has fantasized about killing as many as possible without consequences. Disturbing. Look up psychological projection, and be more careful what you say.

[ Psychology has a long list of solemn statements that became clueless when you scratch a little, even falling in pseudo-religious and self censoring BS sometimes, but the possibility that "my evil twin" would be planning a massive killing with my bare hands is really remote, so I'm not really worried about that. In any case, thanks for your interest ].

Of course If racists really would not wanted to kill other people, they seem to have a long history of "oops, I did it again" unfortunate moments. Those people have a really bad luck

Re: How much do we need the police?

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I've seen current USA riot footage where the police seemingly got spooked (by an umbrella), and proceeded to gas a couple of hundred peaceful protestors. Some riots and current outbreaks have certainly been caused by police. In other incidents riot police have been filmed purposefully and willfully attacking already subdued members of the public; looking around first to check for observers of course! One of the…

Not sure how to get from being gassed by the police to looting shops, though. I haven't seen that footage, but of course I have heard of cases of violence against protesters. Doesn't really prove a deliberate approach to me. Maybe some police officers are also just human and get angry when people hurl stones at them and spit at them. If it's an excuse for the protesters, why not for the police. Sure, you'd hope they'…

>Maybe some police officers are also just human and get angry when people hurl stones at them and spit at them. //

Yes, I've much sympathy with this. Police are human too - but just as if I get angry and lash out at someone in the street, without appropriate mitigations, I will be charged with assault - so too should police. That's rule of law in operation.

If you can stomach it then look on Reddit, the riot footage is illuminating IMO (of course remember the inherent selection and PoV biases).

Re: How much do we need the police?

#496
post #175

"Police" (Edit:"modern police") is a 19th century invention, well after cities were a thing. If we get past semantics, a service that provides order and security to a community is needed. I imagine it more like social workers that also do criminal investigations for prosecutors instead of a military force for a city. Perhaps an unrelated armed "police" can help when deadly force is needed (gangs, armed criminals,etc.…

What you are describing is the London Metropolitan Police which are regarded as one of the worlds best managed police forces, where the average bobby are unarmed and where the code of conduct focus on public service. It;s also worth noting that when the UK faced a similar problem with an undiverse militarized police force in northern Ireland they did this https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/police/patten/recommend.htm a…

And yet the protests in London turned violent and attacked the police:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/03/george-floyd-pro...

Either they are not perceived as well as you think or these protests aren't about what they claim to be about.

Re: How much do we need the police?

#497
post #175

"Police" (Edit:"modern police") is a 19th century invention, well after cities were a thing. If we get past semantics, a service that provides order and security to a community is needed. I imagine it more like social workers that also do criminal investigations for prosecutors instead of a military force for a city. Perhaps an unrelated armed "police" can help when deadly force is needed (gangs, armed criminals,etc.…

What you are describing is the London Metropolitan Police which are regarded as one of the worlds best managed police forces, where the average bobby are unarmed and where the code of conduct focus on public service. It;s also worth noting that when the UK faced a similar problem with an undiverse militarized police force in northern Ireland they did this https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/police/patten/recommend.htm a…

And yet the protests in London turned violent and attacked the police:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/03/george-floyd-pro...

Either the metropolitan police are not perceived as well as you think they are or these protests aren't about what they claim to be about.

Re: How much do we need the police?

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how to get from being gassed by the police to looting shops, though. I haven't seen that footage, but of course I have heard of cases of violence against protesters. Doesn't really prove a deliberate approach to me. Maybe some police officers are also just human and get angry when people hurl stones at them and spit at them. If it's an excuse for the protesters, why not for the police. Sure, you'd hope they'…

>Maybe some police officers are also just human and get angry when people hurl stones at them and spit at them. // Yes, I've much sympathy with this. Police are human too - but just as if I get angry and lash out at someone in the street, without appropriate mitigations, I will be charged with assault - so too should police. That's rule of law in operation. If you can stomach it then look on Reddit, the riot footage…

Of course police officers who assault people should be charged with assault. I don't think anybody says otherwise.

But then charge the individual officers, not "the police".

Re: How much do we need the police?

#500
post #73
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian police are no different. Living under a dangerous illusion.

I'd like to know why you think so. In my experience, at least in Vancouver, police tend to use violence and force as absolutely the last resort, and generally play a lot more of "social worker" type of role, especially when it comes to handling issues associated with drug addiction in the downtown east side. But I could be very wrong so I'm interested in hearing other viewpoints. Or maybe you're thinking of different…

Oh? How quickly we forget.

The 2010 G20 summit in Toronto must have been a walk in the park. One can see the police hand in hand with protesters singing kumbaya. Noted that this event had police officers from all over the country participating. Many conveniently forgot to wear badges and nametags, some conveniently had masks on:

https://www.google.com/search?q=g20+toronto+police+brutality...

And Vancouver, lovely city! Until they lose the Stanley Cup of course:

https://www.google.com/search?q=vancouver+stanley+cup+riots&...

Post reply on HN