Editors (Vim) • Hacker News Board

Re: Editors (Vim)

#71

Post by Cyph0n » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 5:39 AM UTC

pvg wrote: post #55

Cyph0n wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> continuing their long proud tradition of being wrong about everything. Why do you think that Vim users were/are wrong about everything?

I don't! That's just a dumb joke. A thing that I semi-seriously think: modal editing is not some uniquely interesting or advantageous way to navigate and edit text. A thing that I mostly-seriously think: most more recent methods for editing and navigating code are a lot better vim-style modal text editing.

Modal editing is very efficient imo. Once you get used to it, there is no going back. Plus, in my experience, it’s much easier on the wrists in general.

But I think Vim bindings in an IDE or Vim with a LSP plugin is the killer combo.

Re: Editors (Vim)

#72

Post by caymanjim » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 5:42 AM UTC

hwestiii wrote: post #15

I feel about Vim the way RMS seems to feel about Linux. Even though, (presumably) everyone knows the relationship of vim to vi, I don’t feel there is enough explicit acknowledgement of that fact. Vim is evidently a wonderful tool, (I say this as a confirmed 20 year emacs user for whom emacs is only usable due to excellent vi emulation possibilities) but it clearly wouldn’t exist without the basic foundation provided…

But...who cares? Yes, Vim owes a debt of gratitude to Bill Joy's vi. And vi was built from ex, which was built from ed, ad infinitum back to the dawn of computing. I like trivia, especially computer trivia, and I was there for much of this evolution. But it's not important to know any of it.

Re: Editors (Vim)

#73

Post by Cyph0n » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 5:43 AM UTC

webgoat wrote: post #68

pvg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't! That's just a dumb joke. A thing that I semi-seriously think: modal editing is not some uniquely interesting or advantageous way to navigate and edit text. A thing that I mostly-seriously think: most more recent methods for editing and navigating code are a lot better vim-style modal text editing.

I expected it was because of the vim crowd's belief that a small footprint is essential for some reason. I use evil mode in emacs and can't understand why vim people place arbitrary limits on themselves when emacs is a more full IDE experience that costs them very little to jump to.

I use a remote machine at work for all development. With tmux + Vim, I get persistent editor sessions with native performance.

The alternative used to be writing code over VNC (not fun!), but we’re now moving towards VS Code Remote. I don’t see myself changing to it anytime soon, though.

Re: Editors (Vim)

#74

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Re: Editors (Vim)

#75

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Re: Editors (Vim)

#76

Post by caymanjim » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 5:46 AM UTC

If you think Vim emulation is a replacement for Vim, either you don't know Vim or you don't like Vim. VSCode Vim emulation? Spacemacs? They are miniscule, pale comparisons. VSCode is a fine editor. Emacs is a fine editor. Spacemacs is pretty fantastic. But if you you think that's Vim, you simply don't know and appreciate Vim. That's ok, but it's not even in the same universe as the real thing. By all means use what you want, but don't try to sell it as close enough.

Re: Editors (Vim)

#77

Post by read_if_gay_ » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 5:47 AM UTC

j-james wrote: post #67

archarios wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unfortunately not uncommon. I feel like most of my coworkers at most companies Ive worked for don't use vim. One killer app of vim for me is macros. You can record a string of commands and map doing that to a letter. This makes certain mundane changes you have to do sometimes in software a breeze. For example, I had some code where someone was using string literals everywhere when they should have defined an…

> If I wasn't using vim I'd probably just leave that code as it was because it would have been so much effort. Most modern editors, Visual Studio Code included, have powerful refactoring abilities. Not only that, but they're usable without needing to be an editor expert - just right-clicking and selecting "Change all occurrences" (or pressing F2) does the trick.

This is reasonably fast, but not nearly as fast as if can be on Vim. IDK how GP did it, but one quick way might be searching for strings and hitting . whenever the macro needs to be applied. So you would end up doing something like n n n . n n . n n and so on, where each n means “go to next string” and each dot corresponds to finding and renaming something manually in other editors. You can go through dozens of occurrences in seconds, orders of magnitude faster than other editors.

Re: Editors (Vim)

#78

Post by jrockway » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 5:51 AM UTC

jussij wrote: post #21

jedwards1211 wrote: post #2

Vim emulation in VSCode worse than any other IDE I've used. All extensions have to run on the same thread in a background process and intercepted keystrokes are passed to that process over IPC. So if other extensions (like the TS language tools) are tying up the extension host process, the Vim extension can't respond to your keyboard input until other extensions yield. Performance issues come and go but for awhile I…

> I was stuck waiting for several seconds any time I typed The worst behaviour of any editing environment is a lagging keyboard response. In this COVID-19 era I've found myself working remotely over VPN and on some occasions the response times become very slow. The most noticeable observation for me is how frustration writing code becomes whenever my editing environment slows over that lagging VPN. Tasks that are nor…

I don't think there is any need to suffer just because you have a slow connection. You can use mosh if you're editing on a remote machine, or sshfs if your editor is on your workstation. I have heard that you can run the Language Server on the remote machine as well, for things like completion/indexing/etc. (I personally always just ssh to the remote machine and use Emacs though. Then I have the same environment at home and work and don't have to sync anything.)

Re: Editors (Vim)

#79

Post by Cyph0n » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 5:52 AM UTC

szemet wrote: post #65

pvg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't! That's just a dumb joke. A thing that I semi-seriously think: modal editing is not some uniquely interesting or advantageous way to navigate and edit text. A thing that I mostly-seriously think: most more recent methods for editing and navigating code are a lot better vim-style modal text editing.

The only thing what makes modal editing bearable (from UX PoV) is the unlimited undo. e.g. Would anyone take a plane that has modal cockpit buttons?

What does flying a plane have to do with editing and navigating code?

Re: Editors (Vim)

#80

Post by read_if_gay_ » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 5:56 AM UTC

ufo wrote: post #41

I love vim but I always get a feeling that I'm only using 1% of its features. It is hard to memorize all the availanle keybindings, specially if it is something that you don't use often. Does anyone have suggestions of what worked to help learn mor Vim commands?

I suspect it’ll take a long time for that feeling to go away, but what helped me for learning is just using Vim everywhere and sometimes when you run into a particular problem where you think there might be efficient ways to solve it, look it up. Give yourself some time to get used to the new commands and really add them to your repertoire before you look up something new.