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Editors (Vim)

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Re: Editors (Vim)

#61

Post by j-james »

pokernaming wrote: post #22
chongli wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a long time vim user, I’ve tried VSCode a few times and I cannot for the life of me figure out what all the hype is about. Can anyone who is proficient with it explain the philosophy behind it and what makes it so great? This is a sincere question, not a rhetorical one.

I use vscode daily for everything, from note taking to programming. Here are my pros and cons. Pros: - Has plugins for anything.You're doing C++, just install C++ plugin and you're good to go. Want vim key bindings there's a plugin for that as well. I use a plugin that can scrape competitive coding websites and automatically create tests for a problem. - Git, snippets, etc all modern IDE features built-in. - It is al…

It's worth mentioning that even though it's Electron, it's fairly well optimized Electron.

Idle, it takes up a third of a gig of RAM on my laptop. Language server extensions are responsible for the majority of the load users encounter. That's certainly a good 2-3 times more than Sublime Text, but it's not going to be a deal breaker for a majority of people.

Re: Editors (Vim)

#62

Post by pvg »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #54
pvg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's Emacs for Javascript people - a good thing since Emacs is moribund and most programmers are at least a little bit Javascript people. A highly programmable, cross-platform editor with zillions of extensions/modes that support all sorts of languages and environments. People complain about its resource requirements and performance, just like they did with Emacs. Vi(m) users are the natural enemy of VSCode, just lik…

I'm going to partially disagree. > It's Emacs for Javascript people I'll accept this premise. > a good thing since Emacs is moribund And here we part ways. > and most programmers are at least a little bit Javascript people. You might be living in a bubble. > A highly programmable, cross-platform editor with zillions of extensions/modes that support all sorts of languages and environments. Agreed; I think you're actua…

You might be living in a bubble.

I think the relative sizes of the 'Most programmers have at least some minimal familiarity with Javascript' bubble and the 'Emacs is not moribund' bubble speak for themselves and offer sufficient retort :)

Re: Editors (Vim)

#64

Post by adrianN »

hwestiii wrote: post #15

I feel about Vim the way RMS seems to feel about Linux. Even though, (presumably) everyone knows the relationship of vim to vi, I don’t feel there is enough explicit acknowledgement of that fact. Vim is evidently a wonderful tool, (I say this as a confirmed 20 year emacs user for whom emacs is only usable due to excellent vi emulation possibilities) but it clearly wouldn’t exist without the basic foundation provided…

vi itself is just a natural progression from ed, the standard editor.

Re: Editors (Vim)

#65

Post by szemet »

pvg wrote: post #55
Cyph0n wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> continuing their long proud tradition of being wrong about everything. Why do you think that Vim users were/are wrong about everything?

I don't! That's just a dumb joke. A thing that I semi-seriously think: modal editing is not some uniquely interesting or advantageous way to navigate and edit text. A thing that I mostly-seriously think: most more recent methods for editing and navigating code are a lot better vim-style modal text editing.

The only thing what makes modal editing bearable (from UX PoV) is the unlimited undo.

e.g. Would anyone take a plane that has modal cockpit buttons?

Re: Editors (Vim)

#66

Post by codyb »

ufo wrote: post #41

I love vim but I always get a feeling that I'm only using 1% of its features. It is hard to memorize all the availanle keybindings, specially if it is something that you don't use often. Does anyone have suggestions of what worked to help learn mor Vim commands?

I spend a lot of time in tmux and I frequently open and close terminal sessions so I made this

https://github.com/cboppert/motd

It’s message of the day but with ViM tips. It worked fantastically for getting small tips throughout my day that allowed me to consume and learn without necessarily dedicating any tangible amount of time to it.

Re: Editors (Vim)

#67

Post by j-james »

archarios wrote: post #51
partiallypro wrote: post #29

I'm by no means a high level expert of command line, but if I need to do a quick edit I just use nano, and if I need to get down and dirty I use VS Code. Is this abnormal? I know a lot of power users use Vim, but I've just never fallen in love with it.

This is unfortunately not uncommon. I feel like most of my coworkers at most companies Ive worked for don't use vim. One killer app of vim for me is macros. You can record a string of commands and map doing that to a letter. This makes certain mundane changes you have to do sometimes in software a breeze. For example, I had some code where someone was using string literals everywhere when they should have defined an…

> If I wasn't using vim I'd probably just leave that code as it was because it would have been so much effort.

Most modern editors, Visual Studio Code included, have powerful refactoring abilities. Not only that, but they're usable without needing to be an editor expert - just right-clicking and selecting "Change all occurrences" (or pressing F2) does the trick.

Re: Editors (Vim)

#68

Post by webgoat »

pvg wrote: post #55
Cyph0n wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> continuing their long proud tradition of being wrong about everything. Why do you think that Vim users were/are wrong about everything?

I don't! That's just a dumb joke. A thing that I semi-seriously think: modal editing is not some uniquely interesting or advantageous way to navigate and edit text. A thing that I mostly-seriously think: most more recent methods for editing and navigating code are a lot better vim-style modal text editing.

I expected it was because of the vim crowd's belief that a small footprint is essential for some reason. I use evil mode in emacs and can't understand why vim people place arbitrary limits on themselves when emacs is a more full IDE experience that costs them very little to jump to.

Re: Editors (Vim)

#69

Post by bitwize »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #54
pvg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's Emacs for Javascript people - a good thing since Emacs is moribund and most programmers are at least a little bit Javascript people. A highly programmable, cross-platform editor with zillions of extensions/modes that support all sorts of languages and environments. People complain about its resource requirements and performance, just like they did with Emacs. Vi(m) users are the natural enemy of VSCode, just lik…

I'm going to partially disagree. > It's Emacs for Javascript people I'll accept this premise. > a good thing since Emacs is moribund And here we part ways. > and most programmers are at least a little bit Javascript people. You might be living in a bubble. > A highly programmable, cross-platform editor with zillions of extensions/modes that support all sorts of languages and environments. Agreed; I think you're actua…

It's not really.

The difference between VSCode and Emacs is the difference between an extensible editor and a software omnitool intended to be extended, shaped, and refined as you work with it. Writing short programs in Emacs Lisp, seeing their effects immediately in the live editor environment, and then (should they prove generally useful) refining them into full-fledged modes or commands is quite a bit different than writing a packaged extension.

There is, still, nothing like Emacs in the editor world today. As much as Visual Studio Code gets right, it has a long way to go to get within spitting distance of Emacs in terms of adaptability and power (to say nothing of resource consumption).

Re: Editors (Vim)

#70

Post by webgoat »

mikekchar wrote: post #59
BooneJS wrote: post #52

20 years ago I got a job and went from Windows to Unix. Tinkered with both emacs and vim, and for some reason had this craziness where I'd start new files in emacs and make small edits in vi/vim. I have dabbled with neovim and vim-modes in other editors, but I keep going back to a somewhat-customized vim with ~8 packages. I'm not really an advanced vim user. I have to think and remember how to do column edits, and I…

Evil mode in Emacs is almost perfect. My biggest complaint is that undo works differently than vim (if anyone knows how to fix that, I would be forever grateful!) I originally used Emacs for about 20 years and then switched to Vim for a variety of reasons. I love the editing model in Vim. But for the last few years I've been using Emacs with Evil and it's been the best of both worlds.

Here you go: (setq evil-want-fine-undo t)
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