Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries • Hacker News Board

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#201

Post by lee » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:45 AM UTC

SaintGhurka wrote: post #23

If your doctor tells you to do a sleep study, do it. If, as a result, they tell you to get a CPAP, get it. Those things are life-changing. I felt like an old man at 50 years old. My back was so stiff I couldn't put on my socks. When I got out of bed in the morning I felt so fragile, like my joints were all inflamed - especially my Achilles' tendons. I was too tired to do anything beyond 6 pm. Now, 51, I feel totally…

I remember getting a sleep study where they titrated for my cpap pressure. I woke up leaving that morning feeling like superman. It was as though a long fog was lifted from my brain.

I've been using CPAP for 9 years now and I can't imagine my life without it.

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#202

Post by abeyer » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:48 AM UTC

naasking wrote: post #170

This article seems to contradict itself: > UC Berkeley sleep scientists have begun to reveal what it is about fragmented nightly sleep that leads to the fatty arterial plaque buildup known as atherosclerosis that can result in fatal heart disease. This is a causal claim, emphasis mine, which contradicts: > “To the best of our knowledge, these data are the first to associate sleep fragmentation, inflammation and ather…

The causal claim is itself a (stronger form of) correlation, so how is that a contradiction? They claim:

1. To demonstrate a causal pathway

2. There was not a previous correlative claim that this merely strengthened

Also, given it's in an open access journal, you can trivially verify from the source rather than rely on a press release. "we describe a pathway wherein sleep fragmentation raises inflammatory-related white blood cell counts (neutrophils and monocytes), thereby increasing atherosclerosis severity" [https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...]

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#203

Post by foldr » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:49 AM UTC

jpxw wrote: post #127

downerending wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you paying less, all in? (e.g., taxes)

We are, yes. But the average American would be shocked at the "customer experience" the average patient gets from the NHS. No such thing as a free lunch etc. And I think if you have private insurance (i.e: double paying), you'll probably be paying more than the average American. I don't know for sure though.

>double paying

You also have to factor in the (very large) public expenditure on healthcare in the USA. Americans also pay for part of their healthcare through taxes.

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#204

Post by elemenope » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:55 AM UTC

electriclove wrote: post #174

jason_pomerleau wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BMI of 19 with severe sleep apnea checking in. Never woke up gasping, never struggled staying awake, but I did feel like I enjoyed the occasional afternoon nap, and my partner reported snoring. It’s worth getting checked out. I ended up going the dental appliance route because CPAP machines feel like a torture device to me. Anecdotally it’s made a noticeable difference. Haven’t had a nap in ages.

What does the dental appliance do?

Pulls your lower jaw forward to make room at the back of your throat. I had the Somnodent Air [0] for several years, but switched to a CPAP when my lower molars started to cant forward.

[0]: https://somnomed.com/en/dentists/somnodent/somnodent-air/

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#205

Post by pwdisswordfish2 » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:55 AM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #148

mancerayder wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked a doctor about it and he said that since I'm not obese nor overweight, and I don't regularly wake up gasping, then I'm not a candidate. I've had fitful sleep as far as I can remember. I wake up (and remember it) probably 4-5 times a night and I've been told I toss and turn all the time. I find if I take a calmant or a substance I can sleep through the night. I have chronic inflammation includes Achilles' pain…

Your doctor is WRONG! I spent 2 extra years barely half awake because I thought that, being thin, I could not have sleep apnea. Nor did I wake up gasping. The 4 main risk factors are overweight, being male, over 40, and current or past smoker. But some get it while being 0/4. Sleep apnea is one of the best serious medical conditions you can have, since the CPAP machine fixes it completely, with very minor discomfort!

The CPAP does not "fix it completely" for everyone. That is FALSE. Granted, the machine should make a noticeable difference, but it does not restore "normal" sleep in all patients. I would be interested to see statistics from a "CPAP satisfaction" survey. Instead of solely looking at AHI, ask patients to rate their sleep. There are at least a couple of commenters in this thread who are telling us the CPAP has not restored their sleep to "normal". CPAP may be the "Gold Standard" in OSA treatment but it is not the "Holy Grail" for everyone suffering from sleep disordered breathing.

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#206

Post by tren » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 12:56 AM UTC

lenova wrote: post #96

I've been having major sleep issues recently (waking up every 60-90s minutes, trouble staying asleep, averaging 2-4 hours of sleep a night total). I recorded myself overnight and heard quite a bit of snoring, so I picked up a at-home sleep study kit, convinced that I had sleep apnea. The results were that I didn't, classified my O2 intake as normal, and my snoring threshold as low. I'm at a loss as to what do now. I…

If you can, reach out for help. Talk to your GP and don't discount any advice they give you. If you can talk to a cbti sleep specialist (usually a psych), it's worth trying out. I did group cbti and in conjunction with other things, it helped a lot. I was in a similar boat to you a couple of years ago

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#207

Post by barney54 » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 1:08 AM UTC

the-dude wrote: post #9

Fitful : Occurring in or characterized by intermittent bursts, as of activity; irregular. https://www.wordnik.com/words/fitful I am not a native speaker and had to look it up.

I am a native speaker and I had to look it up as well.

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#208

Post by pwdisswordfish2 » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 1:09 AM UTC

anonymousab wrote: post #73

SaintGhurka wrote: post #23

If your doctor tells you to do a sleep study, do it. If, as a result, they tell you to get a CPAP, get it. Those things are life-changing. I felt like an old man at 50 years old. My back was so stiff I couldn't put on my socks. When I got out of bed in the morning I felt so fragile, like my joints were all inflamed - especially my Achilles' tendons. I was too tired to do anything beyond 6 pm. Now, 51, I feel totally…

That said, it's not always a magic bullet. I got a cpap after a sleep study found I had 80+ breathing interruptions in the short overnight test window. It easily brought them down to The value is absolutely there in the greatly reduced likelihood of death in my sleep, and the white noise is better than snoring when sleeping around others. But I wouldn't want to get people's hopes up about it providing them the bad sl…

Did you get see different sleep docs after you realised the change with the CPAP was not as dramatic as you had hoped?

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#209

Post by abeyer » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 1:09 AM UTC

dnissley wrote: post #65

novok wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it actually stay on? I had a zeo headband sleep tracker and there was a %50 chance it would slip off while I was asleep.

Just got one a few weeks ago. Feel free to AMA. It stays on for me (medium to large size head, or so I think) -- tends to ride up on my forehead a bit over time but never had it fall off. It's got some adjustments that can be made to tighten/loosen the fit, on top of which there is some elastic in part of the band.

What (if anything) will it do in the absence of their service? Is there any open source software/open protocols/etc... for it?

After being burned a few times, I've resolved to make hardware purchasing decisions based only on what a device can do using built-in/self-hosted software without any external services...but vendors make this difficult or impossible to figure out from the marketing glossies.

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#210

Post by wincy » Sat, Jun 06, 2020, 1:11 AM UTC

TomJansen wrote: post #179

dcolkitt wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may sound crazy, but for those who can't tolerate a CPAP, an effective alternative is playing the didgeridoo.[1] Anecdotally my wife and kids were complaining about my snoring, and I bought one for $40 off Amazon. Not only has my snoring improved, but my lung capacity has improved. Plus it's just fun to play. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1360393/

Wow I always wanted to play didgeridoo, but now I definitely want to buy one! Does you have any suggestions on which one to order?

The study I read about apnea said people were given simple plastic didgeridoos. Authentic ones are $100-$2000, and a plastic one with beeswax was $35 on Amazon.