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Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

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Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I snored so loudly that when I was in basic training that they made me sleep all of the way at the opposite end of the open-bay barracks we were in. I was 18 and near the height of physical perfection. As far back as 10 years old I remember feeling miserable every single morning even after getting a full night's sleep. At age 35 I got a CPAP and finally fixed a quarter century of piss-poor sleep.

This is so frustrating. Surely millions or billions of humans having terrible sleep is not just some genetic abnormality, and we did not evolve to have terrible sleep only fixed by modern technology. There must be some underlying issue that can be addressed for the majority of people.

I got diagnosed with sleep apnea and asked about this, since I'm not overweight. The doctor said it's more about the structure of the mouth and throat than obesity. There is an area at the back of the tongue that gathers more fat and can block the throat, but palette structure is a big factor. Along with jaw size and throat size.

I remember reading not too long ago on HN an article about our dental health in modern times: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-we-have-so-ma...

It could be our diet contributing to smaller jaws/palettes that increase the prevalence sleep apnea?

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#162

Anybody have “clinical grade” sleep tracker recommendations as recommended by the article? I have a smart watch sleep tracker but my doctor says it is inaccurate (withings watch), and it always says my deep sleep number is too low even though google says the range is within normal.

Dreem is the only thing I know of. Pricy though. https://dreem.com/en

This review of dreem on reedit is comprehensive. Seems like its the best sleep tracker you can buy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ouraring/comments/e3l1jl/30_nights_...

Just found this code online for a 20% off NOOEONDVV

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, fixing out the lung capacity, musculature of the diaphragm, throat, tongue, etc is really the cure. And loosing excess weight if that is the case. CPAP, while effective and life changing is a band aid that the medical industry can make money on. I don't hear anyone saying that the CPAP should be used in conjunction with restorative exercises. I'm glad you found this solution.

I'm pretty sure healthcare providers everywhere inform people who need to exercise and lose weight that they need to exercise and lose weight. Not really fair to ding them for making money on other treatments for people who can't bring themselves to do it the natural way.

In my experience this is actually rare. I've heard many similar stories to mine here from friends and family, but briefly, my own recent experience with this kind of thing:

I saw four doctors across two states trying to resolve a certain medical condition, which happens to be very common, has very negative effects, and has low recovery rates.

They prescribed a couple different medications, and mentioned that the disorder is "associated with" a list of a bunch of things related to lifestyle and diet. (These items were never brought up again by any doctor after their initial brief mention: it was a kind of "going through the motions" with each doctor—part of the obligatory informative synopsis of the disorder.)

The medications did practically nothing, and experimenting with briefly removing different items on the list from my life did practically nothing. Meanwhile my life was severely negatively impacted by this for ~4 years.

Eventually I decide to "get healthier" in a general way with an improved diet, insistence on regularly getting sufficient sleep, reduced alcohol consumption, and regular strength training.

A few months later the condition was at about 50%, and now it's at a point where I'm barely bothered by it.

I'm also a Type 1 diabetic and ran into a similar thing there: the recommendations given to me by doctors were incompatible with the blood sugar ranges they described as desirable. So I did my own research and discovered that basically everyone who had really good numbers was doing massive carbohydrate reduction in addition to taking insulin.

What it came down to in both cases: doctors will not prescribe lifestyle changes. They may mention them, but their core solution is likely to be a medication + tweaking dosage—even if this is by comparison far less useful.

I do think there's a legitimate reason, though: most people are simply not willing to make these kind of lifestyle changes. However, for those who are willing to do it, there's a good chance they'll lack the info on how effective it can be, because it's not what their doctor is going to emphasize.

(I'd urge anyone who thinks my cases may be uncommon to try this: if you know someone who resolved a medical condition by general lifestyle improvements like diet, sleep, exercise etc.—see if they made the changes because a doctor recommended it or if the motivation come from somewhere else.)

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may sound crazy, but for those who can't tolerate a CPAP, an effective alternative is playing the didgeridoo.[1] Anecdotally my wife and kids were complaining about my snoring, and I bought one for $40 off Amazon. Not only has my snoring improved, but my lung capacity has improved. Plus it's just fun to play. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1360393/

In my case, I doubled my lung capacity through swimming, which did wonders for my health.

What measurement of lung capacity? That's pretty awesome and maybe I should look into it haha.

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I snored so loudly that when I was in basic training that they made me sleep all of the way at the opposite end of the open-bay barracks we were in. I was 18 and near the height of physical perfection. As far back as 10 years old I remember feeling miserable every single morning even after getting a full night's sleep. At age 35 I got a CPAP and finally fixed a quarter century of piss-poor sleep.

This is so frustrating. Surely millions or billions of humans having terrible sleep is not just some genetic abnormality, and we did not evolve to have terrible sleep only fixed by modern technology. There must be some underlying issue that can be addressed for the majority of people.

Poor indoor air quality.

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so frustrating. Surely millions or billions of humans having terrible sleep is not just some genetic abnormality, and we did not evolve to have terrible sleep only fixed by modern technology. There must be some underlying issue that can be addressed for the majority of people.

I got diagnosed with sleep apnea and asked about this, since I'm not overweight. The doctor said it's more about the structure of the mouth and throat than obesity. There is an area at the back of the tongue that gathers more fat and can block the throat, but palette structure is a big factor. Along with jaw size and throat size. I remember reading not too long ago on HN an article about our dental health in modern t…

This absolutely makes sense to me. It explains why it affects anyone, not just overweight people or people who do not exercise. Our mouths evolved to masticate much larger amounts of low calorie and high fiber food. If this theory is correct, it is still unfortunate that it is not easily solved with something like exercise alone and often requires either braces or CPAP.

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#167

If your doctor tells you to do a sleep study, do it. If, as a result, they tell you to get a CPAP, get it. Those things are life-changing. I felt like an old man at 50 years old. My back was so stiff I couldn't put on my socks. When I got out of bed in the morning I felt so fragile, like my joints were all inflamed - especially my Achilles' tendons. I was too tired to do anything beyond 6 pm. Now, 51, I feel totally…

I got a CPAP for obstructive sleep apnea and it resulted in absolutely zero benefits after several months. It did cost quite a bit and take time to clean, though. I'm very skeptical about the positive effects of CPAP for all but the most severely affected individuals.

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#168

If this describes you, go get a sleep study done. A CPAP has completely changed the quality of my sleep. Even short sleep nights are deep and restful. Now I just need to get my diet under control and exercise regularly...

CPAP resulted in zero benefit to me, you are lucky.

Re: Fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation, hardened arteries

#170
This article seems to contradict itself:

> UC Berkeley sleep scientists have begun to reveal what it is about fragmented nightly sleep that leads to the fatty arterial plaque buildup known as atherosclerosis that can result in fatal heart disease.

This is a causal claim, emphasis mine, which contradicts:

> “To the best of our knowledge, these data are the first to associate sleep fragmentation, inflammation and atherosclerosis in humans,” said study lead author Raphael Vallat

which is a correlative claim, emphasis also mine, and they use "linked" throughout the article, which is also correlative.

So does fitful sleep "lead to" chronic inflammation and arterial plaque, or are chronic inflammation and arterial plaque simply typical of people in poorer health and/or overweight, which can itself potentially cause sleep disorders, ie. a correlation? I'm not sure we know the actual root causes here.

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