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Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

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Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#101

Post by Sevaris »

nsajko wrote: post #92
Sevaris wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh, no. Manjaro is the no-nonsense "I really don't want to waste time troubleshooting my own shit" version of Arch Linux. I stopped using Arch when I found Manjaro and I'm so glad I did. Arch just requires way too much fiddling for it to ever feel "complete" and or finished.

From my perspective Manjaro seems like Arch+added nonsense. I honestly don't see what are you trying to say regarding Manjaro with "I really don't want to waste time troubleshooting my own shit" or "Arch just requires way too much fiddling". On the other hand I could understand if you just wanted something that requires less knowledge to set up the first time, but then why not go with Debian or something? To clarify,…

Manjaro is install and go. Arch Linux is ... well, if you haven't done it before, you're going to waste at least an hour going through the awful documentation trying to piece together what the installation flow is supposed to be. The beginner's guide was scrapped and the replacement is awful. So if you're new, it's going to be painful. And if you aren't new, it's still painful if you just want to install your OS and get working on things that actually have anything to do with things that interest you. You like Arch Linux, fine. But don't pretend everybody wants to install and configure everything manually, then mess around with whatever seems to be not working because the moons aren't aligned just right that day. I'm tired of Arch Linux. I'm tired of all the tinkering. I'm tired of the additional cognitive load of all the things I have to make sure is configured right. I already waste hours of my day just getting tooling to work for whatever god awful language I have to work with that day. I just want things to work. Manjaro just works.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#102

Post by jimbob45 »

bouncycastle wrote: post #69

From reading the other comments, people just don't like having security updates done automatically - they'd like to have more control when they are performed. Kind of like in Windows, where your computer suddenly shuts down to apply a service pack while you were in the middle of an important World of Warcraft raid that you were planning for weeks. There's always a trade-off between keeping your system secure and bein…

This is my read on the situation too. MS already solved this too: just make it difficult, but not impossible to turn off.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#103

Post by dathinab »

henriquez wrote: post #12
techntoke wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely try an Arch-based distro. I run Arch myself, but I've heard good things about Manjaro.

Doesn’t arch also allow arbitrary package upgrades straight from the developers? Again I’m pretty ignorant but my impression looking at it previously was there isn’t any sort of “peer review” by repo maintainers.

Arch is kinda the I can do everything reliably distros if you know how to set me up.

Updates are only installed when you run pacman (or a pacman wrapper/replacement). But I guess you mean changes to a package in the repository with "package upgrades straight from the developers".

There are two sources for arch packages:

- The official repository, - The AUR repository

The later one does indeed allow maintainers to arbitrary update or remove packages. It provides just a way for _users_ to provide custom packages to other users. The responsibility for reviewing them lies with the person using them. This is clearly communicated. Also most AUR packages do not contain any code but just install instructions which pull the code/binaries from their original source (e.g. github/github releases/the website of the project for which the package is). So reviewing them is normally quote doable. The only annoying to review AUR package I can remember is tor-browser.

With regard to the official package thinks are actually pretty similar as far as I know (but I don't rally know) except that not everyone can publish thinks there and you have a group of "trusted" core maintainers.

In the end arch is a distro by the "experienced" Linux user for the "experienced" Linux user without to much financial backing.

Not that there still are thinks like a security group which tracks CVE's and similar but it's fully based on volunteers.

This makes it quite a fascinating choice as any choices wrt. maintenance comes from some dev wanting to use it on their system.

But yes if you don't trust the core maintainers don't use it.

Also it might not be appropriate to be used on cooperate systems due to company policies wrt. legal liability reasons.

Still you also trust many other software maintainers solely based on a good reputation and for arch it's in the end the same.

Also besides pacman and probably some other minor thinks Arch doesn't do any code. It's just provides code other people wrote (sometimes with publicly known patches) to the user, sometimes pre-compiled.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#104

Post by simosx »

eberkund wrote: post #58

This appears to be an unpopular opinion, but I like snaps and Canonical's philosophy in some ways mimics that of Apple's where they care about usability over configurability. Snaps have been my preferred method of installation for a few years now. I really like how I know where the files are being installed to and if I uninstall the software it will be removed cleanly. I also like how for most software snaps contain…

You may distribute those .snap packages directly to the users.

Granted, you need to pay for your own separate Snap Store, unless someone makes the effort to create a third-party implementation.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#105

Post by littlestymaar »

eberkund wrote: post #58

This appears to be an unpopular opinion, but I like snaps and Canonical's philosophy in some ways mimics that of Apple's where they care about usability over configurability. Snaps have been my preferred method of installation for a few years now. I really like how I know where the files are being installed to and if I uninstall the software it will be removed cleanly. I also like how for most software snaps contain…

> Apple's where they care about usability over configurability.

I don't know the Apple ecosystem, but adding a 3-second-delay to every opened app because of a questionable sandbox whose security benefits are hypothetical doesn't sounds like “caring about usability” at all…

Appimage is a better solution than snap overall, and it solves your issue with having yo go through canonical, but the whole point of snap is forcing you going through canonical…

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#106

Post by nihil75 »

Finnucane wrote: post #10

I've been using Mint now for several years and been satisfied with it. I was afraid that the Ubuntu's snap mishegas would force me to move elsewhere, but this is the message I was hoping to hear from the Mint team.

Pretty sure you could still install Snap if you wanted to. It just won't come pre-installed?

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#107

Post by pmontra »

fxtentacle wrote: post #19
jimhefferon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What distro? I use Ubuntu because I just want an OS, not a hobby.

Me too, but I'm staying on 18 for now because 20 breaks my workflows.

I'm planning to upgrade so you have my attention. What did 20 change to break your workflow?

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#108

Post by nsajko »

dima55 wrote: post #25
jimhefferon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What distro? I use Ubuntu because I just want an OS, not a hobby.

Just use Debian. Ubuntu is quite literally Debian+bullshit.

I have the perception (maybe just uneducated guess) that Debian is strictly worse than, say, Arch for personal use. One has to deal with constantly outdated packages, but also with required breaking changes in case of an upgrade from one version to another.

EDIT: I was mostly wrong about the "breaking changes", but this seems like a breaking change: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/c...

Anyway, those release notes are huge, I'd say it is less painful to maintain an Arch system for personal use because of that. You should update/upgrade more often, but the required interventions, if any, are easy.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#109

Post by dathinab »

Sevaris wrote: post #63
henriquez wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t arch also allow arbitrary package upgrades straight from the developers? Again I’m pretty ignorant but my impression looking at it previously was there isn’t any sort of “peer review” by repo maintainers.

You're never forced to update. I'm don't even think Arch natively supports automatic updates. You can also tell pacman to skip a package from being updated if you're aware of a problematic update but you want to update the rest of your system. And yes, Arch takes in the upstream vanilla packages, though there are testing phases before updates reach stable repos. I'm not sure any of this is a bad thing. It also means…

I think what he/she means is that core maintainers (or AUR maintainers) might be able to change a package without another core maintainer (or AUR maintainer) reviewing it.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#110

Post by simosx »

dancemethis wrote: post #81
eberkund wrote: post #58

This appears to be an unpopular opinion, but I like snaps and Canonical's philosophy in some ways mimics that of Apple's where they care about usability over configurability. Snaps have been my preferred method of installation for a few years now. I really like how I know where the files are being installed to and if I uninstall the software it will be removed cleanly. I also like how for most software snaps contain…

I don't think I met a functional snap package so far. Granted, I only had the displeasure of dealing with two. Docker was a complete mess, .net Core was complete hell trying to figure out paths. Certainly stuff not meant for the just-slightly-above dummy, and even less for the actual dummies.

I have been using the LXD snap and it worked just fine. The complexity should be similar to that of Docker.
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