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Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

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Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#11

Post by ahartmetz »

karatestomp wrote: post #8
henriquez wrote: post #3

I dumped Ubuntu over Snap. Maybe I’m just ignorant but it seems like allowing developers to push software updates without any review invites the same sorts of issues we’ve seen on npm, with very high risks for certain use cases. I don’t want that kind of relationship with my OS, forced updates are why I ditched Windows in the first place. Aside from the philosophical concerns I ran into a lot of glitches with various…

Launch times and (silly, but it really bugged me) pollution of my `df` output drove me away.

Cluttering up df and mount output is a real problem. They are useful tools - cluttering their output makes them much less convenient / more time-consuming to use. I have about 8 mounts for snap and like 15 for cgroups here. And actually about 10 others that I don't remember seeing before at all. pstore? securityfs? tracefs? debugfs?

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#12

Post by henriquez »

techntoke wrote: post #6
henriquez wrote: post #3

I dumped Ubuntu over Snap. Maybe I’m just ignorant but it seems like allowing developers to push software updates without any review invites the same sorts of issues we’ve seen on npm, with very high risks for certain use cases. I don’t want that kind of relationship with my OS, forced updates are why I ditched Windows in the first place. Aside from the philosophical concerns I ran into a lot of glitches with various…

Definitely try an Arch-based distro. I run Arch myself, but I've heard good things about Manjaro.

Doesn’t arch also allow arbitrary package upgrades straight from the developers? Again I’m pretty ignorant but my impression looking at it previously was there isn’t any sort of “peer review” by repo maintainers.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#13

Post by hamaluik »

henriquez wrote: post #3

I dumped Ubuntu over Snap. Maybe I’m just ignorant but it seems like allowing developers to push software updates without any review invites the same sorts of issues we’ve seen on npm, with very high risks for certain use cases. I don’t want that kind of relationship with my OS, forced updates are why I ditched Windows in the first place. Aside from the philosophical concerns I ran into a lot of glitches with various…

I've been using Manjaro for about a year now, after also getting fed up with Ubuntu. It is based on Arch, but just as easy to set up and get running as Ubuntu. I find its package management sane enough for my day-to-day use, and though I install packages from all over I have yet to have anything break on me. I can definitely recommend it.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#14

Post by adamzochowski »

snap has problems that exist for years.

It will upgrade a running application without telling the user. Then it will remount all folders in use by the running application in read only mode. As such, your chromium will start misbehaving, crashing, extensions will start failing, it won't save cookies or remember tabs after restart. DBeaver won't be saving your .sql scripts. Snap developers think users are precogs. That users without any foreshadowing will close application before snap silently upgrades it behind the scenes.

Also Snap does really weird things as a container. I run multiple VPNs each within own network namespace. So something as simple as :

as root: ip netns exec myVPN chromium fails with execv failed: Permission denied

Both of these problems exists for years.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#15

Post by jimhefferon »

Darmody wrote: post #9

I can understand Canonical pushing for snaps. It's their product and they want it to succeed. That said I hate their dirty ways. I find it even morally wrong. How can "sudo apt install chromium-browser" not install the apt package but install instead a snap? How I, as a user and also as a professional, trust Ubuntu if when I use their package manager I'm being tricked? I don't use Windows for a reason, more than one…

What distro? I use Ubuntu because I just want an OS, not a hobby.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#16

Post by kemayo »

Skunkleton wrote: post #7

I personally don't packaging apps in a sandbox, its a violation of the basic idea of writing tools that do one thing well. Still, snap gets lots of flack, but I don't see the same for flatpak. Is there some advantage to flatpak that I am missing, or is it just than Ubuntu has pushed snaps too hard?

It sounds like the objection isn't technical -- sandboxed apps are perfectly fine -- but rather to how Canonical is trying to change package behavior alongside the transition. Specifically, they're forcing you to use them for some packages behind the scenes, and restricting what you can do with those packages as a result:

> "In the Ubuntu 20.04 package base, the Chromium package is indeed empty and acting, without your consent, as a backdoor by connecting your computer to the Ubuntu Store. Applications in this store cannot be patched, or pinned. You can't audit them, hold them, modify them, or even point snap to a different store. You've as much empowerment with this as if you were using proprietary software, i.e. none. This is in effect similar to a commercial proprietary solution, but with two major differences: It runs as root, and it installs itself without asking you."

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#17

Post by fxtentacle »

The main reason why I use Linux for some of my work is reproducibility. A docker image with the same apt packages installed in it will work the same every time.

Snap breaks this. A snap package can update itself whenever it wants and then you the user are just screwed when things don't work together anymore. So in effect, snap breaks the main benefit of Linux for deployment and the reason why I use Linux in the first place.

Every since they started with ads and affiliate links, I've been sceptical of Ubuntu. But Ubuntu 18 is still used as the base image for many docker deployments. I predict that this will change with Ubuntu 20, exactly because the snaps have made Ubuntu 20 unusable for reliable docker deployments.

I'm glad that mint is stepping in to provide a viable alternative.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#18

Post by [deleted] »

Darmody wrote: post #9

I can understand Canonical pushing for snaps. It's their product and they want it to succeed. That said I hate their dirty ways. I find it even morally wrong. How can "sudo apt install chromium-browser" not install the apt package but install instead a snap? How I, as a user and also as a professional, trust Ubuntu if when I use their package manager I'm being tricked? I don't use Windows for a reason, more than one…

[deleted]

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#19

Post by fxtentacle »

jimhefferon wrote: post #15
Darmody wrote: post #9

I can understand Canonical pushing for snaps. It's their product and they want it to succeed. That said I hate their dirty ways. I find it even morally wrong. How can "sudo apt install chromium-browser" not install the apt package but install instead a snap? How I, as a user and also as a professional, trust Ubuntu if when I use their package manager I'm being tricked? I don't use Windows for a reason, more than one…

What distro? I use Ubuntu because I just want an OS, not a hobby.

Me too, but I'm staying on 18 for now because 20 breaks my workflows.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#20

Post by flatfilefan »

Snap for me means Firefox suddenly says “I won’t open a new tab until you update me and I will drop all tabs on restart”. It also means cached content and configs in many new obscure places. It doesn’t mean any visible improvement so far. So hey, kudos Mint and hey, Ubuntu stop that already.
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